4 ms·

It’s politicized too which is ridiculous. I’ve seen takes that being pro gas cookery is right-wing. Yes, it’s obvious that gas heat and cooking could cause res

by mikrl 4y ago

It’s politicized too which is ridiculous. I’ve seen takes that being pro gas cookery is right-wing. Yes, it’s obvious that gas heat and cooking could cause respiratory issues due to combustion. As a gourmand though, cooking on a gas range is the best experience wrt temp control and convenience. I prefer an electric oven, and the heating system I’m impartial to, though radiant hot water is what I fondly remember from youth.

rs999gti 4y ago
Are any right wing EU, US, or CA parties supporting the gas stove ban or is just lefties and greenies doing it?
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  That's not the point - only a few loonies on the left are pushing it. Most of the left and the right are opposed. That makes it not a left/right issue.
  - rs999gti 4y ago
    No, I'm asking has any right leaning party or politician came out in the media and said yes we should ban gas stoves? I've only seen the tweet from Biden appointed Trumka - https://mobile.twitter.com/TrumkaCPSC/status/1612553459462721536 https://mobile.twitter.com/TrumkaCPSC/status/161255345946272...
  - shapefrog 4y ago
    Fossil fuel gas hobs and boilers BANNED in all new-build homes from 2025. UK Government legislation ... from a right wing government.
    - Lutger 4y ago
      Yes. This doesn't mean gas stoves are banned (existing ones are not outlawed). In fact its not about stoves at all. It means some countries are doing at least something to address climate change. Eventually we all need to move away from gas, this is about that. Not banning gas stoves overnight, but gradually banning all fossil fuels, which you can't do if everybody is still cooking on gas. You need to gradually reduce your dependency on it.
      - the_third_wave 4y ago
        No, countries do not need to move away from gas even if you're convinced CO₂ is the cause of all our woes. What you'd want to move away from is natural gas, not gas in itself. There are plenty of other ways to get methane - which is what natural gas is (more or less) - which do not add CO₂ to the environment. Domestic waste can be fermented for local production, industrial, agricultural and forest-industry waste for larger-scale installations. Methane is a good energy carrier given the ease at which it can be transported and handled. It is not poisonous, it can be compressed and/or liquefied and it burns cleanly without the need for complex burner designs.
- Lutger 4y ago
  The gas stove ban that is in the news is a US thing, not a EU or CA as far as I know. I haven't heard of any gas stove bans in the EU being talked about, though some were already on the table in an effort to get rid of gas altogether. If I'm not mistaken, it was _not_ a political initiative, at least not initially, but talked about as an option by The US Consumer Product Safety Commission in the case if stoves could not be made safe, in response to scientific research revealing its hazardous effects. Generally, right-wing parties care less about health hazards (if at all), so I wouldn't expect any supporting such a ban. Mind you, what is considered right-wing varies from country to country.
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    > The gas stove ban that is in the news is a US thing, not a EU or CA as far as I know. Gas stoves are not banned in the Netherlands but natural gas is being fazed out leading to the same outcome. When I bought a new house in the Netherlands in 1996 I had no choice but to move to electric cooking since the whole are was built gas-free. I ended up buying/building an induction range out of a separate induction hob and an electric oven. I sold the house in 2002 after moving to Sweden where I now cook and heat the house on wood - no gas here but no need for it either given our 21 hectares of forest and land. I prefer the latter over the former by far since there is no way meddling busybodies or warmongering Soviet-wannabees can increase my heating/cooking bills.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  In itself the subject of indoor pollution is not a "left vs right" thing just like climate hysteria or SARS2 scaremongering are not innately so. That said it is remarkable that it is those who proclaim themselves to be on the "left" side who are far more susceptible to this type of scaremongering than those who claim to be on the "right" side. This is probably related to the "left" thinking in terms of the collective over the group over the individual where those on the "right" tend to think in terms of (traditional conservatives) "group - individual - collective" or (libertarians) "individual - group - collective". This makes those on the "left" side more susceptible to this type of group think based on appeals to authority - the "experts" agree that gas stoves need to go, "experts" agree that masks need to be worn, "experts" agree that young children need to be exposed to "norm-breaking" or "queer" sexuality, "experts" agree that CO₂ is the main cause of the recent warm spell and that human activities are the main cause of the rise in CO₂ concentration - since it is expected for individuals to sacrifice personal freedom for the good of the collective. Sometimes the "experts" are real experts but often they are activists for a cause. This is also inherent in the "left" vs "right" discussion since those on the "left" can gain fame by forwarding themselves as spokesperson for a "marginalised" group which is "oppressed" by "(fill-in-the-blanks)-normativity". Once one of these self-proclaimed "experts" gets into the limelight and gets the ball rolling the collective needs to follow to avoid accusations of "(fill-in-the-blanks)-phobia" or "*-ism". On the right the way to fame lies in portraying yourself as the defender of traditional values and/or being the one to fight the dragons coming from the left. This is a vicious circle since any new goofy idea from the left is fodder for a dragon-slayer on the right and thus the circle game continues.
rospaya 4y ago
> It’s politicized too which is ridiculous. I’ve seen takes that being pro gas cookery is right-wing. By now the playbook looks too easy for any lobbyist or interest group - just present any issue as left-right and the useful idiots do your work for you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
ccalloway 4y ago
The thing about burning gas for heat in your home is that it's either very clean, or there is something seriously wrong with your system. There is no scope for it causing 'respiratory issues' except in a setup so broken that it's not legal (or shouldn't be legal) to operate. Unlike for example a wood stove which might release some smoke into your house, at a level where it's not good for you, but not violently toxic.
- Philorandroid 4y ago
  >There is no scope for it causing 'respiratory issues'... But it's also an easy platform to sell to the un/misinformed, and a great platform for a candidate who just wants what's healthiest for you and the environment.
- stephen_g 4y ago
  In some countries unflued has heaters are common, which do cause indoor air quality issues. Furnaces that vent the exhaust just cause air quality issues outside, not inside. But the article is about gas stoves, which do release significant NOx output into the house, which domestic rangehoods are generally not very effective in removing quickly enough.
AYBABTME 4y ago
You haven't used the fancy induction stoves, they beat everything in terms of temp control and speed. Plus you can program them and pair them with probes. See the Breville "Control Freak": https://www.breville.com/us/en/products/commercial/cmc850.html https://www.breville.com/us/en/products/commercial/cmc850.ht... It's a game changer in a kitchen.
- basch 4y ago
  or the Tillreda https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/tillreda-portable-induction-cooktop-1-zone-black-30546508/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/tillreda-portable-induction-coo...
cameronhowe 4y ago
Can you elaborate how you find gas more convenient that an induction stove? I've worked in a kitchen with gas and I found it awful. It was harder to clean, you had to be really careful to not burn yourself when you had to do a quick wipedown. Making sure not only that you turned it off, but that anyone else there wasn't forgetful either. Induction like I have at home now is so convenient. I have no worries. It responds super quick to temp changes, it automatically detects if I have something on the stove or not, so no fear of wasting power. You can't burn yourself. The surface is flat and super easy to keep clean.
- mikrl 4y ago
  If the power is out I can cook my perishables for fun, it does the fire thing when you sauté which is somewhat cathartic. I’ve only rented one place with a gas stove and it was mind blowing how good it was compared to those god awful glass top electrics (which I own now) despite it being ancient. Hated the oven though, hence gas range / electric oven.

by mikrl 4y ago

rs999gti 4y ago

Are any right wing EU, US, or CA parties supporting the gas stove ban or is just lefties and greenies doing it?

pclmulqdq 4y ago
That's not the point - only a few loonies on the left are pushing it. Most of the left and the right are opposed. That makes it not a left/right issue.
- rs999gti 4y ago
  No, I'm asking has any right leaning party or politician came out in the media and said yes we should ban gas stoves? I've only seen the tweet from Biden appointed Trumka - https://mobile.twitter.com/TrumkaCPSC/status/1612553459462721536 https://mobile.twitter.com/TrumkaCPSC/status/161255345946272...
- shapefrog 4y ago
  Fossil fuel gas hobs and boilers BANNED in all new-build homes from 2025. UK Government legislation ... from a right wing government.
  - Lutger 4y ago
    Yes. This doesn't mean gas stoves are banned (existing ones are not outlawed). In fact its not about stoves at all. It means some countries are doing at least something to address climate change. Eventually we all need to move away from gas, this is about that. Not banning gas stoves overnight, but gradually banning all fossil fuels, which you can't do if everybody is still cooking on gas. You need to gradually reduce your dependency on it.
    - the_third_wave 4y ago
      No, countries do not need to move away from gas even if you're convinced CO₂ is the cause of all our woes. What you'd want to move away from is natural gas, not gas in itself. There are plenty of other ways to get methane - which is what natural gas is (more or less) - which do not add CO₂ to the environment. Domestic waste can be fermented for local production, industrial, agricultural and forest-industry waste for larger-scale installations. Methane is a good energy carrier given the ease at which it can be transported and handled. It is not poisonous, it can be compressed and/or liquefied and it burns cleanly without the need for complex burner designs.
Lutger 4y ago
The gas stove ban that is in the news is a US thing, not a EU or CA as far as I know. I haven't heard of any gas stove bans in the EU being talked about, though some were already on the table in an effort to get rid of gas altogether. If I'm not mistaken, it was _not_ a political initiative, at least not initially, but talked about as an option by The US Consumer Product Safety Commission in the case if stoves could not be made safe, in response to scientific research revealing its hazardous effects. Generally, right-wing parties care less about health hazards (if at all), so I wouldn't expect any supporting such a ban. Mind you, what is considered right-wing varies from country to country.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  > The gas stove ban that is in the news is a US thing, not a EU or CA as far as I know. Gas stoves are not banned in the Netherlands but natural gas is being fazed out leading to the same outcome. When I bought a new house in the Netherlands in 1996 I had no choice but to move to electric cooking since the whole are was built gas-free. I ended up buying/building an induction range out of a separate induction hob and an electric oven. I sold the house in 2002 after moving to Sweden where I now cook and heat the house on wood - no gas here but no need for it either given our 21 hectares of forest and land. I prefer the latter over the former by far since there is no way meddling busybodies or warmongering Soviet-wannabees can increase my heating/cooking bills.
the_third_wave 4y ago
In itself the subject of indoor pollution is not a "left vs right" thing just like climate hysteria or SARS2 scaremongering are not innately so. That said it is remarkable that it is those who proclaim themselves to be on the "left" side who are far more susceptible to this type of scaremongering than those who claim to be on the "right" side. This is probably related to the "left" thinking in terms of the collective over the group over the individual where those on the "right" tend to think in terms of (traditional conservatives) "group - individual - collective" or (libertarians) "individual - group - collective". This makes those on the "left" side more susceptible to this type of group think based on appeals to authority - the "experts" agree that gas stoves need to go, "experts" agree that masks need to be worn, "experts" agree that young children need to be exposed to "norm-breaking" or "queer" sexuality, "experts" agree that CO₂ is the main cause of the recent warm spell and that human activities are the main cause of the rise in CO₂ concentration - since it is expected for individuals to sacrifice personal freedom for the good of the collective. Sometimes the "experts" are real experts but often they are activists for a cause. This is also inherent in the "left" vs "right" discussion since those on the "left" can gain fame by forwarding themselves as spokesperson for a "marginalised" group which is "oppressed" by "(fill-in-the-blanks)-normativity". Once one of these self-proclaimed "experts" gets into the limelight and gets the ball rolling the collective needs to follow to avoid accusations of "(fill-in-the-blanks)-phobia" or "*-ism". On the right the way to fame lies in portraying yourself as the defender of traditional values and/or being the one to fight the dragons coming from the left. This is a vicious circle since any new goofy idea from the left is fodder for a dragon-slayer on the right and thus the circle game continues.

rospaya 4y ago

> It’s politicized too which is ridiculous. I’ve seen takes that being pro gas cookery is right-wing. By now the playbook looks too easy for any lobbyist or interest group - just present any issue as left-right and the useful idiots do your work for you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

ccalloway 4y ago

The thing about burning gas for heat in your home is that it's either very clean, or there is something seriously wrong with your system. There is no scope for it causing 'respiratory issues' except in a setup so broken that it's not legal (or shouldn't be legal) to operate. Unlike for example a wood stove which might release some smoke into your house, at a level where it's not good for you, but not violently toxic.

Philorandroid 4y ago
>There is no scope for it causing 'respiratory issues'... But it's also an easy platform to sell to the un/misinformed, and a great platform for a candidate who just wants what's healthiest for you and the environment.
stephen_g 4y ago
In some countries unflued has heaters are common, which do cause indoor air quality issues. Furnaces that vent the exhaust just cause air quality issues outside, not inside. But the article is about gas stoves, which do release significant NOx output into the house, which domestic rangehoods are generally not very effective in removing quickly enough.

AYBABTME 4y ago

You haven't used the fancy induction stoves, they beat everything in terms of temp control and speed. Plus you can program them and pair them with probes. See the Breville "Control Freak": https://www.breville.com/us/en/products/commercial/cmc850.html https://www.breville.com/us/en/products/commercial/cmc850.ht... It's a game changer in a kitchen.

basch 4y ago
or the Tillreda https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/tillreda-portable-induction-cooktop-1-zone-black-30546508/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/tillreda-portable-induction-coo...

cameronhowe 4y ago

Can you elaborate how you find gas more convenient that an induction stove? I've worked in a kitchen with gas and I found it awful. It was harder to clean, you had to be really careful to not burn yourself when you had to do a quick wipedown. Making sure not only that you turned it off, but that anyone else there wasn't forgetful either. Induction like I have at home now is so convenient. I have no worries. It responds super quick to temp changes, it automatically detects if I have something on the stove or not, so no fear of wasting power. You can't burn yourself. The surface is flat and super easy to keep clean.

mikrl 4y ago
If the power is out I can cook my perishables for fun, it does the fire thing when you sauté which is somewhat cathartic. I’ve only rented one place with a gas stove and it was mind blowing how good it was compared to those god awful glass top electrics (which I own now) despite it being ancient. Hated the oven though, hence gas range / electric oven.