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> - Of course there are plenty of clowns willing to do that > + Of course there are plenty of attention seekers willing to do just that Calling someone a clow

> - Of course there are plenty of clowns willing to do that > + Of course there are plenty of attention seekers willing to do just that Calling someone a clown/attention seeker makes it seem like it's some unavoidable trait. Let us not remove agency from them. Let us not confuse ill-intent with foolishness. At some point there must be some form of world climate trials reckoning.

brookst 4y ago
It seems like a pretty straightforward fraud. At the very least civil liability should be a question of how much, not if.
fwsgonzo 4y ago
I watched a long lecture by someone who had worked in academia for a long time, and his conclusions were that they cannot accept things that is incompatible with their world view. The classic example is someone who works in oil is not capable of accepting what the consequences are. They may accept that plastic is bad, or that smoke pollutes, although sometimes not even that. Talk to an old biker and he may swear that CO2 is good for you. Have you ever seen someone get defensive at the mere mention of a topic? Eg. that the planet is over-populated and that reducing the population is one of the best things we can do to save ourselves? Well, some immediately enter solution-mode and they talk as if you are arguing for gas chambers (or something equally idiotic). It's quite draining to talk to people when you know their worldview does not allow a conversation about something. But it's also important to understand how it happens, and that you cannot do anything. Now I wish I could find that lecture, but I couldn't. Finding these gems amidst all the junk on the Internet is a challenge.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  They accept it but it's hard to objectively tell me why I should care about future generations. I do care, but I can't think of any objective reasons to care. Only romantic reasons about humanity, descendents, future generations, etc. It gets philosophical.
- aebtebeten 4y ago
  cf https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/notes-on-nationalism/ https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel... tl;dr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_on_Nationalism#Content https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_on_Nationalism#Content
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  Reducing population is not a workable idea. The people saying it may not think they're calling for gas chambers. But thats just because they are ignorant. If you want to do the sums, just assume no one is ever born ever again and plot out the population for the next 100 years. Note that half the planet's population is under the mean age of 30. Life expectancy is above 80 if you exclude death in childbirth (which we just abolished in this thought experiment). Unless you actively start killing people it's not going down fast enough to make any difference in the timescale we have for climate change. And if you do want to start killing people, you'd get the most bang per buck by starting in America, then other rich Western nations. So I'd be very careful about putting this meme out there in case you find yourself on the wrong end of it.
- chasd00 4y ago
  > Have you ever seen someone get defensive at the mere mention of a topic? i certainly witnessed that here during the depths of the pandemic questioning the reward and talking about the consequences of lockdowns! I think you'll find the same level of defensiveness all over the spectrum of climate change. People really want what they hold dearly to be true.

brookst 4y ago

It seems like a pretty straightforward fraud. At the very least civil liability should be a question of how much, not if.

fwsgonzo 4y ago

I watched a long lecture by someone who had worked in academia for a long time, and his conclusions were that they cannot accept things that is incompatible with their world view. The classic example is someone who works in oil is not capable of accepting what the consequences are. They may accept that plastic is bad, or that smoke pollutes, although sometimes not even that. Talk to an old biker and he may swear that CO2 is good for you. Have you ever seen someone get defensive at the mere mention of a topic? Eg. that the planet is over-populated and that reducing the population is one of the best things we can do to save ourselves? Well, some immediately enter solution-mode and they talk as if you are arguing for gas chambers (or something equally idiotic). It's quite draining to talk to people when you know their worldview does not allow a conversation about something. But it's also important to understand how it happens, and that you cannot do anything. Now I wish I could find that lecture, but I couldn't. Finding these gems amidst all the junk on the Internet is a challenge.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
They accept it but it's hard to objectively tell me why I should care about future generations. I do care, but I can't think of any objective reasons to care. Only romantic reasons about humanity, descendents, future generations, etc. It gets philosophical.
aebtebeten 4y ago
cf https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/notes-on-nationalism/ https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel... tl;dr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_on_Nationalism#Content https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_on_Nationalism#Content
ZeroGravitas 4y ago
Reducing population is not a workable idea. The people saying it may not think they're calling for gas chambers. But thats just because they are ignorant. If you want to do the sums, just assume no one is ever born ever again and plot out the population for the next 100 years. Note that half the planet's population is under the mean age of 30. Life expectancy is above 80 if you exclude death in childbirth (which we just abolished in this thought experiment). Unless you actively start killing people it's not going down fast enough to make any difference in the timescale we have for climate change. And if you do want to start killing people, you'd get the most bang per buck by starting in America, then other rich Western nations. So I'd be very careful about putting this meme out there in case you find yourself on the wrong end of it.
chasd00 4y ago
> Have you ever seen someone get defensive at the mere mention of a topic? i certainly witnessed that here during the depths of the pandemic questioning the reward and talking about the consequences of lockdowns! I think you'll find the same level of defensiveness all over the spectrum of climate change. People really want what they hold dearly to be true.