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These heavy handed approaches in the last couple of years makes me wonder what the NSA found out about TikTok. Two consecutive presidents, that held relatively

These heavy handed approaches in the last couple of years makes me wonder what the NSA found out about TikTok. Two consecutive presidents, that held relatively different positions on foreign policy, and government officials at various levels are all pushing to expand this ban. The public sentiment does not agree at all with these bans. I know that TikTok isn't strictly popular here on Hacker News or on Reddit, but the product is not appreciably different than Vine. The general public loves using TikTok, and this can be see from how it genuinely competes with Youtube in terms of user engagement. On the other hand, the app hasn't been banned on consumer devices like it was in India. If the national security risk was genuine, I can't imagine the government would be this slow to act. Indian banned the App back in 2020. Some universities have also banned TikTok on their wifi networks. I personally don't agree with the bans without public evidence of a cybersecruity threat. A company hoarding user data that users are willingly supplying doesn't become a cybersecurity risk just because that company is Chinese. The age group that is currently in college are the biggest users and creators of TikTok, they will use a VPN or switch to data to consume content. Until evidence is transparently release, showing nonconsensual data/OSINT gather, this feels like a political play. Especially since similar data gathering companies are not just allowed to exist, but employed by the US government for their intelligence gathering. Palantir is continuing work with the US government to create a surveillance state, more than what they did to help arrest and deport immigrants crossing the border. I hope we see some information showing concrete secruity threats from TikTok.

filoleg 4y ago
I am pretty much in full agreement with your position. Sadly, discourse around this has been toxic for as long as I remember. The second you aren't cheering enthusiastically for the bans, you are either a CCP shill or a "consoomer" too dumb to understand the risk. Imo it often comes from people who dislike and don't use the app for whatever personal reasons, but it annoys them that there are people who find value in it. This is pure armchair psychologizing and shouldn't be taken seriously. Disclaimer: I am absolutely the least likely person to agree with CCP on anything, and I am totally in support of the recently passed ban on Huawei equipment in the US infra (given the reasoning and evidence behind it was very solid).
mindslight 4y ago
This framing is backwards. Intimate access to the populations's ongoing telemetry, the contents of their digital devices, plus editorial control over what memes they consume? This is patently ripe for abuse, and every surveillance company constitutes its own threat to liberty. The actual problem is the US establishment giving a pass to all of the US headquartered surveillance companies - presumably because they think of them as representing American "innovation" while being deluded into thinking that fine grained laws can be passed to reign them in later if it's "needed". (Just like what hasn't happened with Equifax, Experian, LexisNexis, etc) Rather than political whinging about Tiktok, what we need is effective privacy legislation that neuters the power of every would be surveillance company - despite how the digital totalitarianism industry has become a shining star of the US economy.
- knaik94 4y ago
  We're no longer live in a world where someone who chooses to use the internet can assume the expecataion of privacy. But this is doesn't demonstrate the need to ban TikTok. Gathering data users are willing to give you isn't a crime by any definition. Users choose to create an account, supply personal infomation, scroll for hours, and even make videos. These are not security violations, the app has not sniffed packets on your wifi and decrypted private data or any used an exploit to mine data from your phone. Without technical motive for this ban, it seems nothing more than a political gesture. It's important to make a distinction between a cybersecurity threat due to active exploits and attacks, and a privacy threat due to OSINT mining. I don't believe the second case, currently, justifies an outright ban. If the second also justifies a ban, then every single mainstream piece of software, from smart tv os, to social media, to phone apps, to laptop and desktop os, to entire governments, to even the DMV (for selling info) are should be banned. In some of those cases, I'd argue they have already done worse than TikTok, the DMV currently sells personal infromation without your explicit consent to data brokers. The information the DMV sells access to includes, name, address, employment, voluneer organizations, and vehicle records to some of the same companies you metioned, LexisNexis and Experian. [1] An interesting and alarming disclosure to me is WA DMV explicitly states "We provide data services for authorized recipients. For example: ... Research, such as an obesity study." You information can be used in a research study without your explicit consent. People are read open about sharing opinions on what they like publicly. I enjoy Harry Potter TikToks memes, I'm sure I've posted HP in my public Facebook likes back in the day, and I'm sure I've shared some book quotes on my twitter that's associated with my real identity. And now this post. OSINT isn't just a part of the economy, it's also a part of the government. That's why this ban doesn't sit right with me. https://www.dol.wa.gov/privacy/how-we-use-your-info.html https://www.dol.wa.gov/privacy/how-we-use-your-info.html
yucky 4y ago
> makes me wonder what the NSA found out about TikTok. Same thing they already know about Facebook, Google etc., except they have control over those. These are tools of mass control, better than any religion or pledge of allegiance.

filoleg 4y ago

I am pretty much in full agreement with your position. Sadly, discourse around this has been toxic for as long as I remember. The second you aren't cheering enthusiastically for the bans, you are either a CCP shill or a "consoomer" too dumb to understand the risk. Imo it often comes from people who dislike and don't use the app for whatever personal reasons, but it annoys them that there are people who find value in it. This is pure armchair psychologizing and shouldn't be taken seriously. Disclaimer: I am absolutely the least likely person to agree with CCP on anything, and I am totally in support of the recently passed ban on Huawei equipment in the US infra (given the reasoning and evidence behind it was very solid).

mindslight 4y ago

This framing is backwards. Intimate access to the populations's ongoing telemetry, the contents of their digital devices, plus editorial control over what memes they consume? This is patently ripe for abuse, and every surveillance company constitutes its own threat to liberty. The actual problem is the US establishment giving a pass to all of the US headquartered surveillance companies - presumably because they think of them as representing American "innovation" while being deluded into thinking that fine grained laws can be passed to reign them in later if it's "needed". (Just like what hasn't happened with Equifax, Experian, LexisNexis, etc) Rather than political whinging about Tiktok, what we need is effective privacy legislation that neuters the power of every would be surveillance company - despite how the digital totalitarianism industry has become a shining star of the US economy.

knaik94 4y ago
We're no longer live in a world where someone who chooses to use the internet can assume the expecataion of privacy. But this is doesn't demonstrate the need to ban TikTok. Gathering data users are willing to give you isn't a crime by any definition. Users choose to create an account, supply personal infomation, scroll for hours, and even make videos. These are not security violations, the app has not sniffed packets on your wifi and decrypted private data or any used an exploit to mine data from your phone. Without technical motive for this ban, it seems nothing more than a political gesture. It's important to make a distinction between a cybersecurity threat due to active exploits and attacks, and a privacy threat due to OSINT mining. I don't believe the second case, currently, justifies an outright ban. If the second also justifies a ban, then every single mainstream piece of software, from smart tv os, to social media, to phone apps, to laptop and desktop os, to entire governments, to even the DMV (for selling info) are should be banned. In some of those cases, I'd argue they have already done worse than TikTok, the DMV currently sells personal infromation without your explicit consent to data brokers. The information the DMV sells access to includes, name, address, employment, voluneer organizations, and vehicle records to some of the same companies you metioned, LexisNexis and Experian. [1] An interesting and alarming disclosure to me is WA DMV explicitly states "We provide data services for authorized recipients. For example: ... Research, such as an obesity study." You information can be used in a research study without your explicit consent. People are read open about sharing opinions on what they like publicly. I enjoy Harry Potter TikToks memes, I'm sure I've posted HP in my public Facebook likes back in the day, and I'm sure I've shared some book quotes on my twitter that's associated with my real identity. And now this post. OSINT isn't just a part of the economy, it's also a part of the government. That's why this ban doesn't sit right with me. https://www.dol.wa.gov/privacy/how-we-use-your-info.html https://www.dol.wa.gov/privacy/how-we-use-your-info.html

yucky 4y ago

> makes me wonder what the NSA found out about TikTok. Same thing they already know about Facebook, Google etc., except they have control over those. These are tools of mass control, better than any religion or pledge of allegiance.