5 ms·

I push for async stand ups because they’re just such a waste of time. Look at the frigging board if you want to know what’s going on. Blockers should be brought

I push for async stand ups because they’re just such a waste of time. Look at the frigging board if you want to know what’s going on. Blockers should be brought up as soon as they occur.

twawaaay 4y ago
Depends on how long your standups are and how disciplined the team is. I try to keep standups under 5 minutes after which most people can get back to whatever they are doing. The goal is to increase return on investment by reducing the investment while preserving most of the return. It requires that people are able to show on time, though.
- randomdata 4y ago
  What kind of useful team conversation is taking place in under five minutes?
  - twawaaay 4y ago
    Not a conversation. There is an information exchange that may also lead to a conversation. If this is the case, the conversation happens after standup proper. The usefulness of people telling what they will be doing or what problems they are facing at the moment is that they might not know there is somebody else in the team that can help them solve this problem very quickly. Or sometimes people find they are working on same or similar thing. I also like to think it puts a little bit of pressure on people to get something done so they can show some progress on the next standup.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      > he usefulness of people telling what they will be doing or what problems they are facing at the moment is that they might not know there is somebody else in the team that can help them solve this problem very quickly. I have worked on teams of chickens running around with their heads cut off before. While that is one way to try and rein them in, would you not be better served by moving away from making and instead towards engineering? > I also like to think it puts a little bit of pressure on people to get something done so they can show some progress on the next standup. From experience, initially it does. But soon you realize that when you're racing the clock you end up taking shortcuts (introducing bugs, making poor design decisions, not properly documenting your work, etc.) that will harm you and your team later. Appearances aren't worth sacrificing the company over. It is far better to be seen as a poor employee than to be seen as the superhero of a failed business.
    - japanman425 4y ago
      >happens after standup proper This comment will get flagged and deleted shortly. However. Have you considered not using pretentious “grammar”. The “puts pressure on people” piece is a huge alarm bell of poor people skills. I’d quit shortly after interacting with you… proper.
      - twawaaay 4y ago
        Not sure what your beef is. A month ago I signed up for a marathon that is in the fall. I then told my family, friends and coworkers. This puts a bit of pressure on me to get results. I did not strictly have to do this but, in my experience ,it makes it more likely I will complete my training. See, most people need a little pressure to be successful because we are naturally lazy. And yes, this includes me. If you want to work in an environment that puts absolutely no pressure on you, sure, do your own thing. There are places where nobody cares for results. But ask anybody who knows anything and they will tell you these are not good places for people who want to be successful.
      - Nevermark 4y ago
        Some pressure and some stress are beneficial. They push as past our own expectations. They make focusing easier, because we have to. Too little, or too much, of either is the problem to avoid.
- japanman425 4y ago
  None of what you said made any sense. “Reducing the investment” in what. “Preserving the return” of what.
  - Nevermark 4y ago
    Reducing the time of standups, while maintaining what is useful about them.
musicale 4y ago
> async stand ups because they’re just such a waste of time But bosses love them as a submission/compliance ritual, a surveillance practice, and another flavor of presenteeism.
- randomdata 4y ago
  And I don't mind them as it is an officially blessed "we don't need you to work right now" period, giving me some time to work on personal projects while others drone on about nothing. Which, indeed, is another reason why bosses love them. With less time working, more workers are needed to get an equivalent amount of work done, increasing the headcount under their watch. As a boss' worth is measured by how many people he leads, it is in his best interest to waste as much time as he can without losing his own job.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

I push for async stand ups because they’re just such a waste of time. Look at the frigging board if you want to know what’s going on. Blockers should be brought up as soon as they occur.

twawaaay 4y ago

Depends on how long your standups are and how disciplined the team is. I try to keep standups under 5 minutes after which most people can get back to whatever they are doing. The goal is to increase return on investment by reducing the investment while preserving most of the return. It requires that people are able to show on time, though.

randomdata 4y ago
What kind of useful team conversation is taking place in under five minutes?
- twawaaay 4y ago
  Not a conversation. There is an information exchange that may also lead to a conversation. If this is the case, the conversation happens after standup proper. The usefulness of people telling what they will be doing or what problems they are facing at the moment is that they might not know there is somebody else in the team that can help them solve this problem very quickly. Or sometimes people find they are working on same or similar thing. I also like to think it puts a little bit of pressure on people to get something done so they can show some progress on the next standup.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    > he usefulness of people telling what they will be doing or what problems they are facing at the moment is that they might not know there is somebody else in the team that can help them solve this problem very quickly. I have worked on teams of chickens running around with their heads cut off before. While that is one way to try and rein them in, would you not be better served by moving away from making and instead towards engineering? > I also like to think it puts a little bit of pressure on people to get something done so they can show some progress on the next standup. From experience, initially it does. But soon you realize that when you're racing the clock you end up taking shortcuts (introducing bugs, making poor design decisions, not properly documenting your work, etc.) that will harm you and your team later. Appearances aren't worth sacrificing the company over. It is far better to be seen as a poor employee than to be seen as the superhero of a failed business.
  - japanman425 4y ago
    >happens after standup proper This comment will get flagged and deleted shortly. However. Have you considered not using pretentious “grammar”. The “puts pressure on people” piece is a huge alarm bell of poor people skills. I’d quit shortly after interacting with you… proper.
    - twawaaay 4y ago
      Not sure what your beef is. A month ago I signed up for a marathon that is in the fall. I then told my family, friends and coworkers. This puts a bit of pressure on me to get results. I did not strictly have to do this but, in my experience ,it makes it more likely I will complete my training. See, most people need a little pressure to be successful because we are naturally lazy. And yes, this includes me. If you want to work in an environment that puts absolutely no pressure on you, sure, do your own thing. There are places where nobody cares for results. But ask anybody who knows anything and they will tell you these are not good places for people who want to be successful.
    - Nevermark 4y ago
      Some pressure and some stress are beneficial. They push as past our own expectations. They make focusing easier, because we have to. Too little, or too much, of either is the problem to avoid.
japanman425 4y ago
None of what you said made any sense. “Reducing the investment” in what. “Preserving the return” of what.
- Nevermark 4y ago
  Reducing the time of standups, while maintaining what is useful about them.

musicale 4y ago

> async stand ups because they’re just such a waste of time But bosses love them as a submission/compliance ritual, a surveillance practice, and another flavor of presenteeism.

randomdata 4y ago
And I don't mind them as it is an officially blessed "we don't need you to work right now" period, giving me some time to work on personal projects while others drone on about nothing. Which, indeed, is another reason why bosses love them. With less time working, more workers are needed to get an equivalent amount of work done, increasing the headcount under their watch. As a boss' worth is measured by how many people he leads, it is in his best interest to waste as much time as he can without losing his own job.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]