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I've chatted with a few folks who have spent their entire lives working in climate science while being employed by the oil industry. They're some of the most mo

I've chatted with a few folks who have spent their entire lives working in climate science while being employed by the oil industry. They're some of the most moderate, intelligent, considered people I've ever talked to. And most people hear "a climate scientist who works for an oil company" and assumes they're the worst sort - a profiteer or a liar or a complicit drone. They're not leadership - they don't get to decide what is to be done with their conclusions - but they're not all evil. Now... the leadership folks who commissioned these predictions and then ignored them... That's another matter!

fwungy 4y ago
International oil companies are a small piece of the production pie. Even if they all shut down it's the state oil companies that do the bulk of the production.
- shawnb576 4y ago
  OK well then, we'd better not do anything about it! <s/> I don't think this is strictly true. Oil production is not fully fungible due to all kinds of issues including sanctions and production capacity. But this is also a strawman - this isn't saying "we should shut them all down" or even begging that question. At a minimum it's saying "there were people and companies who intentionally chose to mislead the public on a potentially existential issue - perhaps there should be some reckoning for that?"
  - fwungy 4y ago
    https://www.aei.org/economics/environmental-energy-economics/energy-fact-of-the-week-state-owned-oil-reserves-dwarf-private-companies/ https://www.aei.org/economics/environmental-energy-economics... I never said don't do anything. What I believe is that we need to balance carbon elimination w/ carbon mitigation and not put all our eggs in the elimination basket. We've got one chance to do this right.
    - smackeyacky 4y ago
      I suspect we had one chance to do it right, but the organised and widespread suppression and misinformation campaigns of these companies basically made that impossible. Now we're faced with a range of unpalatable choices and a population fiercely divided about what to do. Great job oil companies.
      - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
        This is a common but erroneous thinking. Man influenced climate change is an ongoing process. It would have been great to start doing something thirty years ago to avoid some of what’s happening now but we didn’t. Now we still have to do something or it will get even worse. This is not a throw your arms in the air and wait for the end while screaming situation.
        smackeyacky 4y ago
        Not advocating throwing my hands in the air, but the deliberate delay has narrowed our choices at a rate faster than technology has come to the rescue. There is going to be a lot of complaints as choices keep getting removed and decisions forced upon us by the escalating crisis. If you are a freedom loving libertarian, you are not going to enjoy the next few decades. Which would be deliciously ironic if it wasn't such a monstrous tragedy.
        WastingMyTime89 4y ago
        I’m not sure I agree with this take. What we are starting to meaningfully see, at least in Europe, is regulations which actually have teeth regarding where investments go and what companies can do regarding emissions and sustainability. It means some things are going to either get more expensive or downright disappear but I wouldn’t call that a significant curb on freedom. It’s more akin to not being able to use lead in plumbing than living under an authoritarian regime. Sure there will be less meat on the menu but, well, c’est la vie.
lonelyasacloud 4y ago
As is normally attributed to Burke, "All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing".
- wahern 4y ago
  Weren't all these studies leaked decades ago by some of the same scientists who drafted them?
credit_guy 4y ago
> Now... the leadership folks who commissioned these predictions and then ignored them... That's another matter! Ok, you made me curious. What were they supposed to do? Stop drilling and selling oil? Ask the government for increased taxes to take care of externalities? Dismantle the corporation? Just resign and go find a job in a different industry?
- cycomanic 4y ago
  Well stop funding anti-(climate)-science disinformation campaigns would be a good start. Many of the current state of divisive politics and the incredible rise of conspiracy theories can be traced to the campaigns funded by big tobacco and big oil.
- abdullahkhalids 4y ago
  You know how when school budgets are cut, underpaid teachers spend money out of their own pockets to ensure students get what is needed? Or nurses stay far past their shifts to ensure critical patients get the care they need? Unethical people don't realize that there are countless ethical people who make the right choices every day. The answer to your questions, is yes to all of them.
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    That's not exactly apples to apples, but you got me thinking about the leaders that cut school budgets and under-staff hospitals (while getting bonuses, no doubt). When it comes to ethics, it appears most organizations are bottom-heavy. Isn't it weird how budget cuts and under-staffing[1] have nebulous attribution, or are seen as an unstoppable force of nature in whose face the embattled, heroic, under-resourced teachers and nurses must make their stand 1. Read 'profit-taking'
  - dadoomer 4y ago
    I agree with the spirit of this take. Of course they should have. We should structure society so that the average person has agency at the workplace, and not just blindly abides by the decisions and orders of the board of directors. If democracy were to expand to the workplace, perhaps we would be in a better position to avoid the situations that lead to the situation described by the OP.
ulfw 4y ago
Then what's the point of working at a place that for decades won't ever listen to what you have to say? Isn't that frustrating? Especially as an intelligent person who might care about the research you're doing. I am very conflicted of this. Do people just get good pay so they can be ignored/shut up?

fwungy 4y ago

International oil companies are a small piece of the production pie. Even if they all shut down it's the state oil companies that do the bulk of the production.

shawnb576 4y ago
OK well then, we'd better not do anything about it! <s/> I don't think this is strictly true. Oil production is not fully fungible due to all kinds of issues including sanctions and production capacity. But this is also a strawman - this isn't saying "we should shut them all down" or even begging that question. At a minimum it's saying "there were people and companies who intentionally chose to mislead the public on a potentially existential issue - perhaps there should be some reckoning for that?"
- fwungy 4y ago
  https://www.aei.org/economics/environmental-energy-economics/energy-fact-of-the-week-state-owned-oil-reserves-dwarf-private-companies/ https://www.aei.org/economics/environmental-energy-economics... I never said don't do anything. What I believe is that we need to balance carbon elimination w/ carbon mitigation and not put all our eggs in the elimination basket. We've got one chance to do this right.
  - smackeyacky 4y ago
    I suspect we had one chance to do it right, but the organised and widespread suppression and misinformation campaigns of these companies basically made that impossible. Now we're faced with a range of unpalatable choices and a population fiercely divided about what to do. Great job oil companies.
    - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
      This is a common but erroneous thinking. Man influenced climate change is an ongoing process. It would have been great to start doing something thirty years ago to avoid some of what’s happening now but we didn’t. Now we still have to do something or it will get even worse. This is not a throw your arms in the air and wait for the end while screaming situation.
      - smackeyacky 4y ago
        Not advocating throwing my hands in the air, but the deliberate delay has narrowed our choices at a rate faster than technology has come to the rescue. There is going to be a lot of complaints as choices keep getting removed and decisions forced upon us by the escalating crisis. If you are a freedom loving libertarian, you are not going to enjoy the next few decades. Which would be deliciously ironic if it wasn't such a monstrous tragedy.
        WastingMyTime89 4y ago
        I’m not sure I agree with this take. What we are starting to meaningfully see, at least in Europe, is regulations which actually have teeth regarding where investments go and what companies can do regarding emissions and sustainability. It means some things are going to either get more expensive or downright disappear but I wouldn’t call that a significant curb on freedom. It’s more akin to not being able to use lead in plumbing than living under an authoritarian regime. Sure there will be less meat on the menu but, well, c’est la vie.

lonelyasacloud 4y ago

As is normally attributed to Burke, "All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing".

wahern 4y ago
Weren't all these studies leaked decades ago by some of the same scientists who drafted them?

credit_guy 4y ago

> Now... the leadership folks who commissioned these predictions and then ignored them... That's another matter! Ok, you made me curious. What were they supposed to do? Stop drilling and selling oil? Ask the government for increased taxes to take care of externalities? Dismantle the corporation? Just resign and go find a job in a different industry?

cycomanic 4y ago
Well stop funding anti-(climate)-science disinformation campaigns would be a good start. Many of the current state of divisive politics and the incredible rise of conspiracy theories can be traced to the campaigns funded by big tobacco and big oil.
abdullahkhalids 4y ago
You know how when school budgets are cut, underpaid teachers spend money out of their own pockets to ensure students get what is needed? Or nurses stay far past their shifts to ensure critical patients get the care they need? Unethical people don't realize that there are countless ethical people who make the right choices every day. The answer to your questions, is yes to all of them.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  That's not exactly apples to apples, but you got me thinking about the leaders that cut school budgets and under-staff hospitals (while getting bonuses, no doubt). When it comes to ethics, it appears most organizations are bottom-heavy. Isn't it weird how budget cuts and under-staffing[1] have nebulous attribution, or are seen as an unstoppable force of nature in whose face the embattled, heroic, under-resourced teachers and nurses must make their stand 1. Read 'profit-taking'
- dadoomer 4y ago
  I agree with the spirit of this take. Of course they should have. We should structure society so that the average person has agency at the workplace, and not just blindly abides by the decisions and orders of the board of directors. If democracy were to expand to the workplace, perhaps we would be in a better position to avoid the situations that lead to the situation described by the OP.

ulfw 4y ago

Then what's the point of working at a place that for decades won't ever listen to what you have to say? Isn't that frustrating? Especially as an intelligent person who might care about the research you're doing. I am very conflicted of this. Do people just get good pay so they can be ignored/shut up?