6 ms·

What makes their stuff so great? I was customizing a gaming rig on their site the other day and it was wildly overpriced. I imagine you can match their specs fo

What makes their stuff so great? I was customizing a gaming rig on their site the other day and it was wildly overpriced. I imagine you can match their specs for this laptop at cheaper prices.

acomjean 4y ago
You can. Its for people like me who want a linux laptop, but don't want to go through the hassle of installing it. While I could, I just didn't want to spend the time on it, plus setting up some drivers here and there. Thats the value prop. I got one for home use, (Oryx pro with Nvidia) 4 years ago. It worked well enough and had so few issues I got one for work.
- jesuscript 4y ago
  I totally sympathize with the driver compatibility concern, but what is the hassle of sticking in a linux usb drive to install? In general, how serious are these driver compatibility concerns for modern laptop hardware?
  - kube-system 4y ago
    The driver issues still exist if you don't do research ahead of time. There are laptops on the shelf today that still don't fully work out of the box with Ubuntu.
  - acomjean 4y ago
    I don't know. I think most machines are pretty well supported. 4 years ago when I first bought one reading through the forums it seemed kinda hit or miss with wifi and sound. especially since my initial machine had nvidia graphics it seemed like a throw money at the problem and avoid headaches. If it was a desktop, I probably would have installed myself. The machines I have from system76 are rebadged "Clevos" (I got dog hair in the fan and replaced the fan, which necessitated investigating. My AMD one with original fans is NL50NU) https://www.clevo.com.tw/ https://www.clevo.com.tw/ The POPOS full disc encryption out of the box was another selling point. I'm not sure thats easy to set up on on a new install. The support is good, when I had issues going up a major version (I think steam installed something newer than what it was expecting) and I couldn't figure how to get the OS to upgrade despite tons of command line foo, I put a ticket and they pointed me in the right direction.
    - maxk42 4y ago
      I don't know about popos but when installing Fedora disk encryption is a one-click option.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    You'd be surprised by how many software engineers balk at the idea of installing an OS from scratch. > In general, how serious are these driver compatibility concerns for modern laptop hardware? If you're not using anything Nvidia related, the process should be smooth as butter. Any Intel or AMD chipset from the past 5-7 years should be well supported by now.
  - trelane 4y ago
    The hassle is the relentless debugging and glitchiness after slapping Linux on a Windows computer. System integration is a thing, and it's hopeless for a random user with zero access to firmware and chip/board documentation. Also, the support and open firmware.
    - RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
      System 76 has a ways to go in this regard. My system 76 firm ware feels like abandon ware
      - trelane 4y ago
        Really? That is not my experience with them at all.
        RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
        I bought a high end serval a couple years ago. I think they stopped producing that line. We never got any firmware updates to address battery life, wifi, sound, bluetooth, trackpad issues. I think they perhaps realized the fu'd, and that product line might have represented a sunk cost for them. I can't blame them if thats the case from a buisness pov, but as a consumer, I'll shop elsewhere for my next 'it just works' linux laptop. Many more options now than a handful of years ago.
        trelane 4y ago
        Interesting. Good luck then! I'd be interested to hear back about some good ones. I agree, options are good and it's so much better than 20 years ago.
  - maxk42 4y ago
    When I installed Linux on my first PC that was an operation that involved literal days of downloads and a screwdriver. Now it takes 30 minutes and I do it 3-4 times a year at least.
- pxc 4y ago
  > Its for people like me who want a linux laptop, but don't want to go through the hassle of installing it. For me, buying from an upstream-oriented Linux hardware vendor is about getting an assurance that on any distro newer than the hardware, everything will just work. I always plan to perform an installation because I have distro preferences. With System76, a stable, fast, open-source BIOS is also part of the value proposition. Personally, I'd never get an NVIDIA laptop again, 'supported' or not. At the end of the day, NVIDIA's kernel module will constrain what kernel versions you can use regardless of what any downstream vendor does. That means possible version conflicts with other out-of-tree kernel modules that I actually want, like ZoL.
imachine1980_ 4y ago
you are paying for convenience, support the project, and have system that is tested for the ground up and configured by the manufacturer, and branding. I don't feel that is so great, some other laptops and pc in the linux ecosystem are great also, but this is their monetization scheme, high price for niche products. I don't think they can sell for lower price and compete whit companies who doesn't expend the money in developing the distribution, wm, etc.
- RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
  'support the project' And what project would that be?
  - imachine1980_ 4y ago
    PoP os (flavor of ubuntu), cosmic desktop, and a company focus in desktop and laptop Linux.
time_to_smile 4y ago
Wildly overpriced compared to building it yourself or compared to other PC building companies? I purchased a Thelio Mira awhile back and have been happier with it than any other PC/laptop I've owned before. The big value add that System76 is having a Linux desktop that is guaranteed to just work out of the box the same way you would expect and Apple machine to work out of the box. In fact, I've probably had less issues with this machine out of the box than any new macbooks I've had in the past few years. I've built plenty of my own PCs before and run linux as my primary desktop multiple times, and my Thelio is a wildly better experience than in the past. The build quality is excellent and for the first time I can really use Linux as my primary desktop with no problems. Building a PC yourself is always going to be cheaper, and for many people that's the preferred path anyway. The point I'm at in my life I would much rather pay a premium to not have to worry about that at all (especially when it comes to hardware on linux). If anyone is look for a "just works" linux PC, I've found system76 to be a great experience.
- jesuscript 4y ago
  Wildly overpriced compared to building it yourself or compared to other PC building companies? Both actually, the markup is extremely high on their stuff if you try to get a gaming rig from them. I built all my PCs since I was 13, and I can say it's not as involved as people think. You really kinda screw in the motherboard, pop in a cpu, and a graphics card/ssd (or if you have no need for a discrete GPU and you get one of those CPUs with decent integrated graphics, you are basically only popping in a CPU). There is like two wires that go from your PSU to mobo at best. The thing is pc hardware prices are already absurd since Covid, so when you add in this extra markup on labor, you are just getting something that's way beyond normal prices. You might look at a $1600 price tag and scoff at it as nothing, but its really a $800 dollar machine with all this extra stuff added or marked up. I've seen people look at $2000 pre built machines and just think they are crazy for buying at that price. It's like ... I don't even think its a money thing, it's like a scammy thing. Imagine if I show up and sell you a iPhone 10 at iphone 14 prices. It's the principle of the matter. You know, there are some afternoons where I don't know what to do with myself. Setting up/building a PC is an hour for me. If it's new to you, it might be an afternoons worth of work. It's not an endless multi day fiasco, I promise.
myself248 4y ago
They spend a lot of that money supporting upstream contributions, maintaining a first-class Linux experience, providing real support, and otherwise putting their money where their mouth is. Compare to almost literally any other laptop, where uttering the word "linux" gets you nothing more than a voided warranty and a strong YOYOMF, and some fraction of customers will see value in System76's approach. Pixel for pixel, watt for watt, you could do better elsewhere. But only with a Windows preload and jumping through hoops if you ever have a hardware failure and have to reinstall the preload to run some awful diagnostics before getting an RMA, for instance. Awful experiences like that really take away from the "value" of a cheaper machine, if your time is worth money, as I suspect it is.
- jesuscript 4y ago
  Guys, let's not go overboard with the hyperbole. I fully accept you guys wanting to support their PopOS endeavor, I totally get it. But let's not all act like we're all CEOs of megabillion dollar companies with boardroom meetings 24/7 that we can't be bothered to fiddle with some common computer issues.
- jklinger410 4y ago
  > maintaining a first-class Linux experience NVIDIA + Coreboot is not a linux-first experience by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you want to be stuck on POP OS for forever.
inetknght 4y ago
> What makes their stuff so great? I was customizing a gaming rig on their site the other day and it was wildly overpriced. Try customizing an Apple product. It's also wildly overpriced. System76 provides top-tier support. That alone is expensive.
- jesuscript 4y ago
  You can't get MacOS any other way reliably. I'm pretty sure you can get PopOS for free. Plus Apple makes pretty unique hardware. This is a totally unfair comparison. Compare to this instead: https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/p/laptops/yoga/yoga-2-in-1-series/yoga-7-gen-7-(14-inch-amd)/len101y0016 https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/p/laptops/yoga/yoga-2-in-1-seri... They also have a list of which of their laptops they tested with Linux: https://support.lenovo.com/pl/en/solutions/pd031426 https://support.lenovo.com/pl/en/solutions/pd031426 Again, System76 doesn't have a price yet for their Ryzen 7 laptop so I can't say if this Lenovo is overpriced in comparison. Maybe, maybe not, but given this Lenovo price, I'm pretty sure System76 ain't going below $2000.
  - schaefer 4y ago
    the Lenovo yoga you reference above is explicitly not for sale in the USA. But for those of you in EU and Australia, this is a nice option. I've considered importing it.
kibwen 4y ago
Got a System76 laptop last year because I was sick of Windows and Mac nonsense (if my OS is going to suck, I want it to suck on my terms). The last time I tried desktop Linux was over ten years prior and I was prepared for a hell of obscure configuration and instability, but pleasantly it all Just Works. If you want a full-fledged Linux-based laptop that works out-of-the-box, I can recommend it.

What makes their stuff so great? I was customizing a gaming rig on their site the other day and it was wildly overpriced. I imagine you can match their specs for this laptop at cheaper prices.

acomjean 4y ago

You can. Its for people like me who want a linux laptop, but don't want to go through the hassle of installing it. While I could, I just didn't want to spend the time on it, plus setting up some drivers here and there. Thats the value prop. I got one for home use, (Oryx pro with Nvidia) 4 years ago. It worked well enough and had so few issues I got one for work.

jesuscript 4y ago
I totally sympathize with the driver compatibility concern, but what is the hassle of sticking in a linux usb drive to install? In general, how serious are these driver compatibility concerns for modern laptop hardware?
- kube-system 4y ago
  The driver issues still exist if you don't do research ahead of time. There are laptops on the shelf today that still don't fully work out of the box with Ubuntu.
- acomjean 4y ago
  I don't know. I think most machines are pretty well supported. 4 years ago when I first bought one reading through the forums it seemed kinda hit or miss with wifi and sound. especially since my initial machine had nvidia graphics it seemed like a throw money at the problem and avoid headaches. If it was a desktop, I probably would have installed myself. The machines I have from system76 are rebadged "Clevos" (I got dog hair in the fan and replaced the fan, which necessitated investigating. My AMD one with original fans is NL50NU) https://www.clevo.com.tw/ https://www.clevo.com.tw/ The POPOS full disc encryption out of the box was another selling point. I'm not sure thats easy to set up on on a new install. The support is good, when I had issues going up a major version (I think steam installed something newer than what it was expecting) and I couldn't figure how to get the OS to upgrade despite tons of command line foo, I put a ticket and they pointed me in the right direction.
  - maxk42 4y ago
    I don't know about popos but when installing Fedora disk encryption is a one-click option.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  You'd be surprised by how many software engineers balk at the idea of installing an OS from scratch. > In general, how serious are these driver compatibility concerns for modern laptop hardware? If you're not using anything Nvidia related, the process should be smooth as butter. Any Intel or AMD chipset from the past 5-7 years should be well supported by now.
- trelane 4y ago
  The hassle is the relentless debugging and glitchiness after slapping Linux on a Windows computer. System integration is a thing, and it's hopeless for a random user with zero access to firmware and chip/board documentation. Also, the support and open firmware.
  - RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
    System 76 has a ways to go in this regard. My system 76 firm ware feels like abandon ware
    - trelane 4y ago
      Really? That is not my experience with them at all.
      - RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
        I bought a high end serval a couple years ago. I think they stopped producing that line. We never got any firmware updates to address battery life, wifi, sound, bluetooth, trackpad issues. I think they perhaps realized the fu'd, and that product line might have represented a sunk cost for them. I can't blame them if thats the case from a buisness pov, but as a consumer, I'll shop elsewhere for my next 'it just works' linux laptop. Many more options now than a handful of years ago.
        trelane 4y ago
        Interesting. Good luck then! I'd be interested to hear back about some good ones. I agree, options are good and it's so much better than 20 years ago.
- maxk42 4y ago
  When I installed Linux on my first PC that was an operation that involved literal days of downloads and a screwdriver. Now it takes 30 minutes and I do it 3-4 times a year at least.
pxc 4y ago
> Its for people like me who want a linux laptop, but don't want to go through the hassle of installing it. For me, buying from an upstream-oriented Linux hardware vendor is about getting an assurance that on any distro newer than the hardware, everything will just work. I always plan to perform an installation because I have distro preferences. With System76, a stable, fast, open-source BIOS is also part of the value proposition. Personally, I'd never get an NVIDIA laptop again, 'supported' or not. At the end of the day, NVIDIA's kernel module will constrain what kernel versions you can use regardless of what any downstream vendor does. That means possible version conflicts with other out-of-tree kernel modules that I actually want, like ZoL.

imachine1980_ 4y ago

you are paying for convenience, support the project, and have system that is tested for the ground up and configured by the manufacturer, and branding. I don't feel that is so great, some other laptops and pc in the linux ecosystem are great also, but this is their monetization scheme, high price for niche products. I don't think they can sell for lower price and compete whit companies who doesn't expend the money in developing the distribution, wm, etc.

RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
'support the project' And what project would that be?
- imachine1980_ 4y ago
  PoP os (flavor of ubuntu), cosmic desktop, and a company focus in desktop and laptop Linux.

time_to_smile 4y ago

Wildly overpriced compared to building it yourself or compared to other PC building companies? I purchased a Thelio Mira awhile back and have been happier with it than any other PC/laptop I've owned before. The big value add that System76 is having a Linux desktop that is guaranteed to just work out of the box the same way you would expect and Apple machine to work out of the box. In fact, I've probably had less issues with this machine out of the box than any new macbooks I've had in the past few years. I've built plenty of my own PCs before and run linux as my primary desktop multiple times, and my Thelio is a wildly better experience than in the past. The build quality is excellent and for the first time I can really use Linux as my primary desktop with no problems. Building a PC yourself is always going to be cheaper, and for many people that's the preferred path anyway. The point I'm at in my life I would much rather pay a premium to not have to worry about that at all (especially when it comes to hardware on linux). If anyone is look for a "just works" linux PC, I've found system76 to be a great experience.

jesuscript 4y ago
Wildly overpriced compared to building it yourself or compared to other PC building companies? Both actually, the markup is extremely high on their stuff if you try to get a gaming rig from them. I built all my PCs since I was 13, and I can say it's not as involved as people think. You really kinda screw in the motherboard, pop in a cpu, and a graphics card/ssd (or if you have no need for a discrete GPU and you get one of those CPUs with decent integrated graphics, you are basically only popping in a CPU). There is like two wires that go from your PSU to mobo at best. The thing is pc hardware prices are already absurd since Covid, so when you add in this extra markup on labor, you are just getting something that's way beyond normal prices. You might look at a $1600 price tag and scoff at it as nothing, but its really a $800 dollar machine with all this extra stuff added or marked up. I've seen people look at $2000 pre built machines and just think they are crazy for buying at that price. It's like ... I don't even think its a money thing, it's like a scammy thing. Imagine if I show up and sell you a iPhone 10 at iphone 14 prices. It's the principle of the matter. You know, there are some afternoons where I don't know what to do with myself. Setting up/building a PC is an hour for me. If it's new to you, it might be an afternoons worth of work. It's not an endless multi day fiasco, I promise.

myself248 4y ago

They spend a lot of that money supporting upstream contributions, maintaining a first-class Linux experience, providing real support, and otherwise putting their money where their mouth is. Compare to almost literally any other laptop, where uttering the word "linux" gets you nothing more than a voided warranty and a strong YOYOMF, and some fraction of customers will see value in System76's approach. Pixel for pixel, watt for watt, you could do better elsewhere. But only with a Windows preload and jumping through hoops if you ever have a hardware failure and have to reinstall the preload to run some awful diagnostics before getting an RMA, for instance. Awful experiences like that really take away from the "value" of a cheaper machine, if your time is worth money, as I suspect it is.

jesuscript 4y ago
Guys, let's not go overboard with the hyperbole. I fully accept you guys wanting to support their PopOS endeavor, I totally get it. But let's not all act like we're all CEOs of megabillion dollar companies with boardroom meetings 24/7 that we can't be bothered to fiddle with some common computer issues.
jklinger410 4y ago
> maintaining a first-class Linux experience NVIDIA + Coreboot is not a linux-first experience by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you want to be stuck on POP OS for forever.

inetknght 4y ago

> What makes their stuff so great? I was customizing a gaming rig on their site the other day and it was wildly overpriced. Try customizing an Apple product. It's also wildly overpriced. System76 provides top-tier support. That alone is expensive.

jesuscript 4y ago
You can't get MacOS any other way reliably. I'm pretty sure you can get PopOS for free. Plus Apple makes pretty unique hardware. This is a totally unfair comparison. Compare to this instead: https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/p/laptops/yoga/yoga-2-in-1-series/yoga-7-gen-7-(14-inch-amd)/len101y0016 https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/p/laptops/yoga/yoga-2-in-1-seri... They also have a list of which of their laptops they tested with Linux: https://support.lenovo.com/pl/en/solutions/pd031426 https://support.lenovo.com/pl/en/solutions/pd031426 Again, System76 doesn't have a price yet for their Ryzen 7 laptop so I can't say if this Lenovo is overpriced in comparison. Maybe, maybe not, but given this Lenovo price, I'm pretty sure System76 ain't going below $2000.
- schaefer 4y ago
  the Lenovo yoga you reference above is explicitly not for sale in the USA. But for those of you in EU and Australia, this is a nice option. I've considered importing it.

kibwen 4y ago

Got a System76 laptop last year because I was sick of Windows and Mac nonsense (if my OS is going to suck, I want it to suck on my terms). The last time I tried desktop Linux was over ten years prior and I was prepared for a hell of obscure configuration and instability, but pleasantly it all Just Works. If you want a full-fledged Linux-based laptop that works out-of-the-box, I can recommend it.