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There is a far, far bigger problem than WhatsApp here, starting with the fact that the article reports a recent collision with fatailities. This is not a syste

There is a far, far bigger problem than WhatsApp here, starting with the fact that the article reports a recent collision with fatailities. This is not a system the size of the US so there's no need for "dark territory" [1] - this is a metro system! Best practice would be to have some kind of block-based system where only one train can occupy a block at a time, and signals control this (if you've ever played factorio, you know what I mean). It seems that what happened is they tried to implement an automatic "moving block" system where trains would keep each other safe, but when that fails, they're back to no block at all, and relying on WhatsApp for SAFETY-CRITICAL communication. There is only one way this can possibly end. Europe has been trying to design moving block as part of ETCS "level 3" and it turns out that's really hard to do to the usual safety standards. The only place I know of that does this in production is the Wuppertal overhead monorail (which is worth a visit, by the way). [1] https://www.frauscher.us/en_us/solutions/dark-territory https://www.frauscher.us/en_us/solutions/dark-territory

leoedin 4y ago
There's already loads of trains using moving block signalling - the Thales SelTrac system has had it for at least 20 years. It tends to be used on single-purpose metro lines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SelTrac https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SelTrac
michael1999 4y ago
It sounds like their moving block system was working, but it has been slow-motion failing for a decade due to maintenance budget. So the emergency WhatsApp backup has been normalized as operations. But normalizing drivers handling their phones introduces new risks. So, yeah - there is only one way this ends. The alternative is follow Toronto and New York, and slow the trains down and require full exclusion. But that has its own problems reducing system capacity, which Mexico City can scarce afford.
xtracto 4y ago
> There is a far, far bigger problem than WhatsApp here, starting with the fact that the article reports a recent collision with fatailities. Oooh Mexico Májico. The Mexico City Metro system is falling into pieces. There have been several terrible accidents in very recent times: - Line 12 Overpass Collapse (3 May 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_Metro_overpass_collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_Metro_overpass_col... ) - Line 3 Collision (couple of days ago) https://www.npr.org/2023/01/07/1147728625/mexico-city-subway-train-collision https://www.npr.org/2023/01/07/1147728625/mexico-city-subway... ) - Line 5 Fire (couple of days ago https://www.infobae.com/america/mexico/2023/01/11/metro-cdmx-reportaron-incendio-en-la-estacion-politecnico-de-la-linea-5/ https://www.infobae.com/america/mexico/2023/01/11/metro-cdmx...). This is the result of years and years of corruption and lack of maintenance. Officers of EVERY level stealing money that is supposed to go for maintenance. Or "contracting" their cousins, friends and other co-conspirators to perform the maintenance, but in reality they keep the money and let the infrastructure to rot.
- anthk 4y ago
  I wish Central and South America had Spain as a reference model on modern metro systems (have a look on Metro Bilbao in Biscay, the Basque Autonomous) Country instead of bitching against it. And, yes, OFC Spaniards have picaresca, too; but what happens across the pond it's crazy.

leoedin 4y ago

There's already loads of trains using moving block signalling - the Thales SelTrac system has had it for at least 20 years. It tends to be used on single-purpose metro lines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SelTrac https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SelTrac

michael1999 4y ago

It sounds like their moving block system was working, but it has been slow-motion failing for a decade due to maintenance budget. So the emergency WhatsApp backup has been normalized as operations. But normalizing drivers handling their phones introduces new risks. So, yeah - there is only one way this ends. The alternative is follow Toronto and New York, and slow the trains down and require full exclusion. But that has its own problems reducing system capacity, which Mexico City can scarce afford.

xtracto 4y ago

> There is a far, far bigger problem than WhatsApp here, starting with the fact that the article reports a recent collision with fatailities. Oooh Mexico Májico. The Mexico City Metro system is falling into pieces. There have been several terrible accidents in very recent times: - Line 12 Overpass Collapse (3 May 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_Metro_overpass_collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_Metro_overpass_col... ) - Line 3 Collision (couple of days ago) https://www.npr.org/2023/01/07/1147728625/mexico-city-subway-train-collision https://www.npr.org/2023/01/07/1147728625/mexico-city-subway... ) - Line 5 Fire (couple of days ago https://www.infobae.com/america/mexico/2023/01/11/metro-cdmx-reportaron-incendio-en-la-estacion-politecnico-de-la-linea-5/ https://www.infobae.com/america/mexico/2023/01/11/metro-cdmx...). This is the result of years and years of corruption and lack of maintenance. Officers of EVERY level stealing money that is supposed to go for maintenance. Or "contracting" their cousins, friends and other co-conspirators to perform the maintenance, but in reality they keep the money and let the infrastructure to rot.

anthk 4y ago
I wish Central and South America had Spain as a reference model on modern metro systems (have a look on Metro Bilbao in Biscay, the Basque Autonomous) Country instead of bitching against it. And, yes, OFC Spaniards have picaresca, too; but what happens across the pond it's crazy.