4 ms·

Yet, even if I accept the thrust of your argument here, which I do not, I would still point out that there is a wide gulf between one of your kin keeping watch

Yet, even if I accept the thrust of your argument here, which I do not, I would still point out that there is a wide gulf between one of your kin keeping watch and a company attempting to promote enough general anxiety in their users to drive them into the profit funnel.

logicalmonster 4y ago
> a company attempting to promote enough general anxiety in their users to drive them into the profit funnel Would you apply the same level of scrutiny to the media? Their modern day business model seems to be overwhelming people with fear/anger porn to keep them agitated and coming back as often as possible for more.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  > Their modern day business model seems to be overwhelming people with fear/anger porn to keep them agitated and coming back as often as possible for more. This is the single most common critique levied against mass media, especially 24h media. You can probably safely assume that everybody in this conversation recognizes it as a problem, rather than using it as cover for another bad thing.
  - sneak 4y ago
    Thanks to our broken incentive systems for mass media, public trust in strangers and society is at record lows, and most people think violent crime has gone up when in reality it is at multi-decade record lows (the spike the last 24 months from covid notwithstanding). Gun violence, for example, has been decreasing for decades. Watch the news and you'd think there's a "gun violence epidemic". It's more profitable to peddle panic than the true framing of our reality.
- Yoric 4y ago
  > Their modern day business model seems to be overwhelming people with fear/anger porn to keep them agitated and coming back as often as possible for more. Not the GP, but I agree that this is a huge problem. One of the reasons for which I've stopped watching TV a long time ago.
- troutwine 4y ago
  > Would you apply the same level of scrutiny to the media? Absolutely. Loudly.
- klyrs 4y ago
  > Would you apply the same level of scrutiny to the media? Yes, a hundred times over. Everything from Fox News blowing petty crime out of proportion to copaganda shows like Law&Order normalizing torture as an effective interrogation technique. https://www.vox.com/culture/22375412/police-show-procedurals-hollywood-history-dragnet-keystone-cops-brooklyn-nine-nine-wire-blue-bloods https://www.vox.com/culture/22375412/police-show-procedurals...
  - jmalicki 4y ago
    Your link doesn't mention the show "Law and Order" (only uses the works to describe the concept) - which episodes normalize torture?
- roywiggins 4y ago
  Yes, obviously. Citizen has just taken the worst parts of local TV news and turned it into an entire business.
notinfuriated 4y ago
I know people won't like to hear this, but I don't think Citizen is attempting to promote general anxiety as a means to get a profit. I think that, coincidentally, promoting general anxiety works (whether or not they even recognize this, which perhaps a laid off insider could speak to), and therefore the organization performs actions that take advantage of this. It's like the adage, "If it bleeds, it leads." Granted, I think news organizations recognized at some point that these types of stories get more eyeballs (hence the adage), therefore they do it intentionally for more advertising revenue. But I don't see any type of organization specifically viewing "general anxiety" as the goal. It so happens that people enjoy gawking at this kind of thing, regardless of what emotion it causes. That said, I'm not actually a fan of Citizen nor a fan of my local police force. I would prefer having unbiased and effective police who can be held accountable when they overstep their boundaries, and it seems like this is an impossible ask through both the public and private sector.
- troutwine 4y ago
  I'm sorry, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, except maybe to say that Citizen is not acting cynically? If that's so, it doesn't change my opinion that we'd be generally better off it Citizen tanks.

logicalmonster 4y ago

> a company attempting to promote enough general anxiety in their users to drive them into the profit funnel Would you apply the same level of scrutiny to the media? Their modern day business model seems to be overwhelming people with fear/anger porn to keep them agitated and coming back as often as possible for more.

woodruffw 4y ago
> Their modern day business model seems to be overwhelming people with fear/anger porn to keep them agitated and coming back as often as possible for more. This is the single most common critique levied against mass media, especially 24h media. You can probably safely assume that everybody in this conversation recognizes it as a problem, rather than using it as cover for another bad thing.
- sneak 4y ago
  Thanks to our broken incentive systems for mass media, public trust in strangers and society is at record lows, and most people think violent crime has gone up when in reality it is at multi-decade record lows (the spike the last 24 months from covid notwithstanding). Gun violence, for example, has been decreasing for decades. Watch the news and you'd think there's a "gun violence epidemic". It's more profitable to peddle panic than the true framing of our reality.
Yoric 4y ago
> Their modern day business model seems to be overwhelming people with fear/anger porn to keep them agitated and coming back as often as possible for more. Not the GP, but I agree that this is a huge problem. One of the reasons for which I've stopped watching TV a long time ago.
troutwine 4y ago
> Would you apply the same level of scrutiny to the media? Absolutely. Loudly.
klyrs 4y ago
> Would you apply the same level of scrutiny to the media? Yes, a hundred times over. Everything from Fox News blowing petty crime out of proportion to copaganda shows like Law&Order normalizing torture as an effective interrogation technique. https://www.vox.com/culture/22375412/police-show-procedurals-hollywood-history-dragnet-keystone-cops-brooklyn-nine-nine-wire-blue-bloods https://www.vox.com/culture/22375412/police-show-procedurals...
- jmalicki 4y ago
  Your link doesn't mention the show "Law and Order" (only uses the works to describe the concept) - which episodes normalize torture?
roywiggins 4y ago
Yes, obviously. Citizen has just taken the worst parts of local TV news and turned it into an entire business.

notinfuriated 4y ago

I know people won't like to hear this, but I don't think Citizen is attempting to promote general anxiety as a means to get a profit. I think that, coincidentally, promoting general anxiety works (whether or not they even recognize this, which perhaps a laid off insider could speak to), and therefore the organization performs actions that take advantage of this. It's like the adage, "If it bleeds, it leads." Granted, I think news organizations recognized at some point that these types of stories get more eyeballs (hence the adage), therefore they do it intentionally for more advertising revenue. But I don't see any type of organization specifically viewing "general anxiety" as the goal. It so happens that people enjoy gawking at this kind of thing, regardless of what emotion it causes. That said, I'm not actually a fan of Citizen nor a fan of my local police force. I would prefer having unbiased and effective police who can be held accountable when they overstep their boundaries, and it seems like this is an impossible ask through both the public and private sector.

troutwine 4y ago
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, except maybe to say that Citizen is not acting cynically? If that's so, it doesn't change my opinion that we'd be generally better off it Citizen tanks.