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After having kids when young and spending my twenties as a parent watching my peers and siblings have so much freedom it's kind of obvious that the desire to ha

After having kids when young and spending my twenties as a parent watching my peers and siblings have so much freedom it's kind of obvious that the desire to have kids is a community/cultural phenomenon. When your friends start having kids you will start getting ready to have kids yourself even if the connection between your friends' situation and yours never enters your conscious mind. We're communal beings fundamentally. Couple this with the trend to get married and have kids later in life when you have less biological time it kind of seems obvious why the birthrate is low. What this means (and I've seen this in many people) - the number of kids they want is always >> than the number of kids they end up having by the time their time runs out in their 40's. Conclusion? Life. is. short. It's ok to wait somewhat but every year you postpone the plunge is a year you don't have on the other side.

xenadu02 4y ago
But often the first couple to have kids delays doing so for reasons that come down to money or proxies for money. For example the career impact may be greater or childcare may be proportionally more of your income.
- hammock 4y ago
  Wouldn’t the third or fourth kid have a proportionally smaller impact on your career or money? For example you have hand me downs, economies of scale in childcare, economies of scale in housing, etc
  - cbhl 4y ago
    Third child has non-linear characteristics: most parents will need to buy a larger car to accommodate a third car seat. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32552994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32552994 https://thezvi.substack.com/p/on-car-seats-as-contraception https://thezvi.substack.com/p/on-car-seats-as-contraception
rayiner 4y ago
It's very much cultural. I got married and had a kid in my 20s because that's when my Bangladeshi mom said it was time. Like you we sat around for years while our friends remained single and childless, and it was alienating. If I hadn't had the strong influence from a non-American culture it might have turned out differently.
- tptacek 4y ago
  What was alienating about it to you? We had our first when I was 21. I don't remember social alienation being one of the big issues (but that's just me) --- when you become a parent, your social circle changes and you tend get closer to other parents.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    In a society that lays out a strict life order sequence and encourages people to have kids in their 20s—such as in the subcontinent, or the US in decades past, or in the US today outside metro areas—your social circle doesn’t change dramatically. You naturally transition to parenthood with your existing circles (friends, cousins) around the same time.q You can see how this would be a disincentive to have kids. People obviously like their friends, and being the first one who has to drag a baby to boozy brunch is no fun. That’s why scolding and shaming from moms and aunties is critical to breaking the collective action problem.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      > That’s why scolding and shaming from moms and aunties is critical to breaking the collective action problem. Perhaps younger cohorts ignoring these people and their input contributes to the change in fertility rate? Depends on the culture of course, some take longer than others to discount generational advice.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        Yes, but it’s bi-lateral. Late boomers and Gen-X were the first cohorts in America fully socialized into the precept of individual sovereignty. Their kids are thus the first generation where the parents aren’t pushing for grandkids, and the kids are also comfortable disregarding whatever parental pressure exists.

xenadu02 4y ago

But often the first couple to have kids delays doing so for reasons that come down to money or proxies for money. For example the career impact may be greater or childcare may be proportionally more of your income.

hammock 4y ago
Wouldn’t the third or fourth kid have a proportionally smaller impact on your career or money? For example you have hand me downs, economies of scale in childcare, economies of scale in housing, etc
- cbhl 4y ago
  Third child has non-linear characteristics: most parents will need to buy a larger car to accommodate a third car seat. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32552994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32552994 https://thezvi.substack.com/p/on-car-seats-as-contraception https://thezvi.substack.com/p/on-car-seats-as-contraception

rayiner 4y ago

It's very much cultural. I got married and had a kid in my 20s because that's when my Bangladeshi mom said it was time. Like you we sat around for years while our friends remained single and childless, and it was alienating. If I hadn't had the strong influence from a non-American culture it might have turned out differently.

tptacek 4y ago
What was alienating about it to you? We had our first when I was 21. I don't remember social alienation being one of the big issues (but that's just me) --- when you become a parent, your social circle changes and you tend get closer to other parents.
- rayiner 4y ago
  In a society that lays out a strict life order sequence and encourages people to have kids in their 20s—such as in the subcontinent, or the US in decades past, or in the US today outside metro areas—your social circle doesn’t change dramatically. You naturally transition to parenthood with your existing circles (friends, cousins) around the same time.q You can see how this would be a disincentive to have kids. People obviously like their friends, and being the first one who has to drag a baby to boozy brunch is no fun. That’s why scolding and shaming from moms and aunties is critical to breaking the collective action problem.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    > That’s why scolding and shaming from moms and aunties is critical to breaking the collective action problem. Perhaps younger cohorts ignoring these people and their input contributes to the change in fertility rate? Depends on the culture of course, some take longer than others to discount generational advice.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      Yes, but it’s bi-lateral. Late boomers and Gen-X were the first cohorts in America fully socialized into the precept of individual sovereignty. Their kids are thus the first generation where the parents aren’t pushing for grandkids, and the kids are also comfortable disregarding whatever parental pressure exists.