4 ms·

It's political. A significant portion of Americans, mostly conservatives, are unable to accept that anything not invented in the US could be superior to what t

It's political. A significant portion of Americans, mostly conservatives, are unable to accept that anything not invented in the US could be superior to what they are accustomed to. There was a push toward adopting the metric system under Carter but since then the right wingers have been largely in control of the political discourse.

jjgreen 4y ago
Er, they are aware that the inch, foot etc were not invented in the US right?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ahartmetz 4y ago
  "It's always been that way" is similar to "it was invented here" in that regard. Besides, the imperial units had local versions and some still do. There are AFAIK no US inches and yards, but US gallons and US pints.
- zethus 4y ago
  Trusting us Americans to know history? Not a chance.
- robertakarobin 4y ago
  You might be surprised at how many Americans think that Jesus spoke English. Source: am American.
  - seanw444 4y ago
    If Jesus exists, he probably can speak English. I'm sure that's not one of his limitations.
- yardie 4y ago
  The US mile is different from the UK mile and US gallons are sufficiently different from UK gallons. Yes, our measurement system is almost entirely homegrown at this point.
  - vel0city 4y ago
    I wish the pub down the street served UK pints :(
  - joshuaissac 4y ago
    The UK had multiple incompatible measures with the same name. The 'imperial' measures were the result of a standardisation of these measures. The US gallon is the same as the now-defunct English 'wine gallon'. The US mile was similarly the same as the UK statute mile, until it was indirectly redefined in terms of the metric metre in 1893. So at least the two examples given are not homegrown.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  Many americans seem unaware of many things that happened before 1776. How many americans even know that the constitution wasn't made until many years later, how many even know the articles of confederation exist, or the politics of 1600s colonies? Many americans seem to think the declaration of independence is legally binding. We are an incredibly stupid country, because many of us actively devalue education, or otherwise denigrate people who learn. The requirements for teaching and education varies wildly state to state, including many states that basically have NO requirements for teachers, and we have actual, real, paper textbooks purchased by southern school systems that teach slavery as "not that bad"
emmp 4y ago
I think it is a tough sell that there would actually be real value out of changing a bunch of road signage and recipe books to metric, and being a stickler about telling people to weigh themselves in kgs instead of lbs for their weight loss programs, etc. It's basically purely aesthetics. I don't think it is politically conservative to say that there's no actual productivity or social gain from expending time and energy 'moving' to these things in everyday contexts. In scenarios where metric is actually needed or appropriate nobody has any trouble using metric. Every kid has learned it in school for decades.
- exmadscientist 4y ago
  > In scenarios where metric is actually needed or appropriate nobody has any trouble using metric This is the key point. What people asking this question often miss is that the US is actually a dual system country. Metric is quite common anywhere it is valuable to use! So the places it isn't used are mostly the places it isn't so useful, or at least where the transition cost is very high.
- Steuard 4y ago
  We lost the Mars Climate Orbiter in 1999 because Lockheed Martin supplied a part that output results in pound-seconds and then that number was fed in to a NASA part that interpreted it as Newton-seconds.[1] Having US engineers speak a different language than all of the other engineers in the world imposes real, non-negligible costs for data checking and risks of failure for any project that might interact with non-US-centered expectations. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_...
  - emmp 4y ago
    I see that as an organizational issue within that company and its project management rather than a political issue. US engineers certainly all know how to use and speak metric. I actually promise you that you won't be able find one who doesn't.
trgn 4y ago
How's the metric system superior? For science, sure. But I find day2day use of measurements in inch/ft, e.g. in home renovation and architecture, way way easier than metric system. I think it's the other way around. The adoption of the metric system was an ideological program from a very specific time. An enlightenment belief in a supreme rational order of things, military science transferred into the real world. Metric system is cool, but it's not "better". Personally, I think it's worse and awkward for many use cases.
- drexlspivey 4y ago
  How much does 12.34 gallons of water weight?
  - RajT88 4y ago
    Exactly. Another example: How many feet is 74 inches? How many meters is 1234cm? (How long did it take for you to do that math in each case?)
    - trgn 4y ago
      6ft 2inch. So easy. So clean. 1234cm is the dumbest measurement ever. Once you find yourself working with those, you are either a scientist or you have adapted to the machine rather than have the machine adapt to you.
      - RajT88 4y ago
        You didn't actually do the test. It would still take you longer in your head to come up with 6ft 2inches (which is the wrong answer, btw, the right answer is 6.167 ft.), than it would to come up with 1.234 meters. > Once you find yourself working with those, you are either a scientist or you have adapted to the machine rather than have the machine adapt to you. This is a super weird comment for a programming-centric forum.
  - trgn 4y ago
    My point exactly. You constantly have to deal with those stupid fractions and decimals in metric system all the time. Also - weight and volume relations have mostly scientific relevance. Not joe schmoe putting up out some drywall, or proportion door and window sizes. It's not that you can't use metric system. It's just worse for a lot of day2day.
alphazard 4y ago
It really doesn't seem political as you present it, along party lines. No one wants to incur the cost of switching, which would be increased errors and material waste. The politicans who change it will be associated with the one time increase in errors and confusion. The benefits are reaped slowly over time (in the form of fewer conversions), so no one can really claim all the credit at once. It's also not political insofar as whether we use metric or imperial de facto depends on the decisions of many thousands of manufacturers and suppliers, not the government. Are they going to outlaw all the imperial measuring tapes, or institute a buy back program?
- RajT88 4y ago
  Right leaning folks tend to have nationalistic (or at least Anglo-centric) talking points when it comes to the switch. Just in the conversations I've had, people feel like they'd be losing some piece of American culture if we switched. It's a thing.
toss1 4y ago
You are evidently getting downvoted out of ignorance. In 1975, congress passed the Metric conversion act, and created the US Metric Board for planning, coordination, and public education. This was disbanded under Reagan, particularly due to White House Advisor Lyn Nofziger's efforts [0]. The killing came from the conservative side, straight up. And yes I was in HS then, and was very enthusiastic about the conversion, and the opposition was generally driven by conservative xenophobic sentiments (and frankly, laziness to learn a new system). I literally heard people say they "didn't want no damn foreign system here", nevermind their ignorance that "standard" wasn't invented in the US either. The fact is that the same xenophobia, laziness, and willful ignorance is being exploited today to drive RW voting blocks. Metric is now so far off their anti-scale as to be invisible, but if another push comes, I can guarantee that the RW media will be all over the same anti-foreign-stuff on metric. What's worse, I use both systems nearly every day in my work, and metric is WAAAY easier. Example: Quickly subtract 5/8" of an inch from from 1' 5 25/32" or subtract 16mm from 452mm - which is easier? Or add 3 tablespoons to 3/4 of a cup vs 44 ml added to 177 ml.. Hell, just the notation in the "standard" system is insane, nevermind the origins (3 barleycorns to the inch or the length of the current king's foot...). Yes, I get that doing conversions is a pain, but once you get used to the switch (maybe just spend a couple weeks in any other country) it is way easier. Opposition is really either political or an unwillingness to think about it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Stat...

jjgreen 4y ago

Er, they are aware that the inch, foot etc were not invented in the US right?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ahartmetz 4y ago
"It's always been that way" is similar to "it was invented here" in that regard. Besides, the imperial units had local versions and some still do. There are AFAIK no US inches and yards, but US gallons and US pints.
zethus 4y ago
Trusting us Americans to know history? Not a chance.
robertakarobin 4y ago
You might be surprised at how many Americans think that Jesus spoke English. Source: am American.
- seanw444 4y ago
  If Jesus exists, he probably can speak English. I'm sure that's not one of his limitations.
yardie 4y ago
The US mile is different from the UK mile and US gallons are sufficiently different from UK gallons. Yes, our measurement system is almost entirely homegrown at this point.
- vel0city 4y ago
  I wish the pub down the street served UK pints :(
- joshuaissac 4y ago
  The UK had multiple incompatible measures with the same name. The 'imperial' measures were the result of a standardisation of these measures. The US gallon is the same as the now-defunct English 'wine gallon'. The US mile was similarly the same as the UK statute mile, until it was indirectly redefined in terms of the metric metre in 1893. So at least the two examples given are not homegrown.
mrguyorama 4y ago
Many americans seem unaware of many things that happened before 1776. How many americans even know that the constitution wasn't made until many years later, how many even know the articles of confederation exist, or the politics of 1600s colonies? Many americans seem to think the declaration of independence is legally binding. We are an incredibly stupid country, because many of us actively devalue education, or otherwise denigrate people who learn. The requirements for teaching and education varies wildly state to state, including many states that basically have NO requirements for teachers, and we have actual, real, paper textbooks purchased by southern school systems that teach slavery as "not that bad"

emmp 4y ago

I think it is a tough sell that there would actually be real value out of changing a bunch of road signage and recipe books to metric, and being a stickler about telling people to weigh themselves in kgs instead of lbs for their weight loss programs, etc. It's basically purely aesthetics. I don't think it is politically conservative to say that there's no actual productivity or social gain from expending time and energy 'moving' to these things in everyday contexts. In scenarios where metric is actually needed or appropriate nobody has any trouble using metric. Every kid has learned it in school for decades.

exmadscientist 4y ago
> In scenarios where metric is actually needed or appropriate nobody has any trouble using metric This is the key point. What people asking this question often miss is that the US is actually a dual system country. Metric is quite common anywhere it is valuable to use! So the places it isn't used are mostly the places it isn't so useful, or at least where the transition cost is very high.
Steuard 4y ago
We lost the Mars Climate Orbiter in 1999 because Lockheed Martin supplied a part that output results in pound-seconds and then that number was fed in to a NASA part that interpreted it as Newton-seconds.[1] Having US engineers speak a different language than all of the other engineers in the world imposes real, non-negligible costs for data checking and risks of failure for any project that might interact with non-US-centered expectations. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_...
- emmp 4y ago
  I see that as an organizational issue within that company and its project management rather than a political issue. US engineers certainly all know how to use and speak metric. I actually promise you that you won't be able find one who doesn't.

trgn 4y ago

How's the metric system superior? For science, sure. But I find day2day use of measurements in inch/ft, e.g. in home renovation and architecture, way way easier than metric system. I think it's the other way around. The adoption of the metric system was an ideological program from a very specific time. An enlightenment belief in a supreme rational order of things, military science transferred into the real world. Metric system is cool, but it's not "better". Personally, I think it's worse and awkward for many use cases.

drexlspivey 4y ago
How much does 12.34 gallons of water weight?
- RajT88 4y ago
  Exactly. Another example: How many feet is 74 inches? How many meters is 1234cm? (How long did it take for you to do that math in each case?)
  - trgn 4y ago
    6ft 2inch. So easy. So clean. 1234cm is the dumbest measurement ever. Once you find yourself working with those, you are either a scientist or you have adapted to the machine rather than have the machine adapt to you.
    - RajT88 4y ago
      You didn't actually do the test. It would still take you longer in your head to come up with 6ft 2inches (which is the wrong answer, btw, the right answer is 6.167 ft.), than it would to come up with 1.234 meters. > Once you find yourself working with those, you are either a scientist or you have adapted to the machine rather than have the machine adapt to you. This is a super weird comment for a programming-centric forum.
- trgn 4y ago
  My point exactly. You constantly have to deal with those stupid fractions and decimals in metric system all the time. Also - weight and volume relations have mostly scientific relevance. Not joe schmoe putting up out some drywall, or proportion door and window sizes. It's not that you can't use metric system. It's just worse for a lot of day2day.

alphazard 4y ago

It really doesn't seem political as you present it, along party lines. No one wants to incur the cost of switching, which would be increased errors and material waste. The politicans who change it will be associated with the one time increase in errors and confusion. The benefits are reaped slowly over time (in the form of fewer conversions), so no one can really claim all the credit at once. It's also not political insofar as whether we use metric or imperial de facto depends on the decisions of many thousands of manufacturers and suppliers, not the government. Are they going to outlaw all the imperial measuring tapes, or institute a buy back program?

RajT88 4y ago
Right leaning folks tend to have nationalistic (or at least Anglo-centric) talking points when it comes to the switch. Just in the conversations I've had, people feel like they'd be losing some piece of American culture if we switched. It's a thing.

toss1 4y ago

You are evidently getting downvoted out of ignorance. In 1975, congress passed the Metric conversion act, and created the US Metric Board for planning, coordination, and public education. This was disbanded under Reagan, particularly due to White House Advisor Lyn Nofziger's efforts [0]. The killing came from the conservative side, straight up. And yes I was in HS then, and was very enthusiastic about the conversion, and the opposition was generally driven by conservative xenophobic sentiments (and frankly, laziness to learn a new system). I literally heard people say they "didn't want no damn foreign system here", nevermind their ignorance that "standard" wasn't invented in the US either. The fact is that the same xenophobia, laziness, and willful ignorance is being exploited today to drive RW voting blocks. Metric is now so far off their anti-scale as to be invisible, but if another push comes, I can guarantee that the RW media will be all over the same anti-foreign-stuff on metric. What's worse, I use both systems nearly every day in my work, and metric is WAAAY easier. Example: Quickly subtract 5/8" of an inch from from 1' 5 25/32" or subtract 16mm from 452mm - which is easier? Or add 3 tablespoons to 3/4 of a cup vs 44 ml added to 177 ml.. Hell, just the notation in the "standard" system is insane, nevermind the origins (3 barleycorns to the inch or the length of the current king's foot...). Yes, I get that doing conversions is a pain, but once you get used to the switch (maybe just spend a couple weeks in any other country) it is way easier. Opposition is really either political or an unwillingness to think about it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Stat...