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Does anyone have hands-on experience with how well different browsers support this? This blog post and caniuse both say Chrome support is currently somewhat lim

Does anyone have hands-on experience with how well different browsers support this? This blog post and caniuse both say Chrome support is currently somewhat limited (though being improved); caniuse also mentions that Safari (both desktop and iOS) only support the Origin Private File System part of the File System API, and that Firefox doesn't support it all. I'm curious how all that actually shakes out in practice.

Existenceblinks 4y ago
Yeah, so tired of excitement without thinking the full production process.
dboreham 4y ago
What happens is that one browser (usually Chrome) implements a useful new feature. Then applications are released that use that feature. Then the other browser vendors start hearing from their users that they suck because they don't support the nice new feature and hence can't run the nice new applications. And eventually they add support.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > What happens is that one browser (usually Chrome) implements a useful new feature. What happens is Chrome releases a Chrome-only non-standard (at a rate of 400 APIs per year). It cobbles together a barely legible spec [1], and then uses its multiple propaganda channels like web.dev to present them as actual completed standards that other browsers are just slow to implement. Even if other browsers only learn about this a few days before Chrome ships, or have multiple objections. [1] Example, File System API https://wicg.github.io/file-system-access/ https://wicg.github.io/file-system-access/ "not a W3C Standard nor is it on the W3C Standards Track."
  - tomayac 4y ago
    Please see https://developer.chrome.com/blog/capabilities/#how-will-we-design-implement-these-new-capabilities https://developer.chrome.com/blog/capabilities/#how-will-we-... for the actual process. Nothing happens behind closed doors; other vendors can chime in at any time, and are actually very much encouraged to do so.
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      That's a nice sentiment at the link. The reality is that Chrome ships hundreds of APIs with little to no input and only barely notifies other browser vendors that "yeah, we're shipping it". We're literally in the discussion about File System API that is: - not on any standards track - considered harmful by other browser vendors - shipped by default in Chrome Edit: I can give several examples from Web Transport to HID to Constructible Stylesheets that were either shipped with no input from other vendors, or shipped against the multiple objections from other browser vendors. And that's just the ones I know about.
      - encryptluks2 4y ago
        Simply not true but believe what you need to.
        dmitriid 4y ago
        I literally provided just some of the examples. Those are easily verifiable. Web Transport is shipped by default. What was the input from other browsers? Here's the timeline for HID: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/459#issuecomment-886271967 https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/459#is... Constructible Stylesheets: the spec contained a trivially reproducible race condition, the API was badly specified. Google shipped against any objections and refused to bring it back under the flag. Full discussion here: https://github.com/WICG/construct-stylesheets/issues/45 https://github.com/WICG/construct-stylesheets/issues/45. Shipped in Chrome https://github.com/WICG/construct-stylesheets/issues/45#issuecomment-577781329 https://github.com/WICG/construct-stylesheets/issues/45#issu... (may be hidden on mobile) despite multiple unresolved issues. Two years later Chrome did add a better API that people originally requested, other issues potentially remain. You may believe in benevolent Google working hand in hand with others for the betterment of the web. The reality is radically different. Edit: more about hardware APIs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34356651 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34356651 Edit2: As to the number of APIs, Chrome actually tracks how much they ship: https://web-confluence.appspot.com/#!/confluence https://web-confluence.appspot.com/#!/confluence
tomayac 4y ago
The Origin Private File System is coming to all browsers, Chrome, Safari, and Firefox. It's a universally agreed-on Web standard: https://fs.spec.whatwg.org/ https://fs.spec.whatwg.org/.
- DylanSp 4y ago
  Just because the standard exists doesn't mean every browser has already implemented 100% of it, hence why I was asking if anyone's had any experience actually trying to use it. EDIT: I saw from your other comments on this post that Firefox has implemented at least the origin private file system part in nightly builds; that's useful info that I was looking for.
  - tomayac 4y ago
    Yeah, sorry. There’s a lot of side threads to read and potentially respond to.
  - madeofpalk 4y ago
    Feb 2022 Safari said it's available in Safari in macOS 12.2 and iOS 15.2 https://webkit.org/blog/12257/the-file-system-access-api-with-origin-private-file-system/ https://webkit.org/blog/12257/the-file-system-access-api-wit... However the sqlite demo page says OPFS is unavailable for me in Safari https://sqlite-wasm-opfs.glitch.me/ https://sqlite-wasm-opfs.glitch.me/ ...unsure whether it only supports a subset of the APIs that the official sqlite build uses?
skybrian 4y ago
The underlying API seems to be available for multiple browsers but not Firefox yet: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/FileSystemFileHandle/createSyncAccessHandle#browser_compatibility https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/FileSystemF...

Existenceblinks 4y ago

Yeah, so tired of excitement without thinking the full production process.

dboreham 4y ago

What happens is that one browser (usually Chrome) implements a useful new feature. Then applications are released that use that feature. Then the other browser vendors start hearing from their users that they suck because they don't support the nice new feature and hence can't run the nice new applications. And eventually they add support.

dmitriid 4y ago
> What happens is that one browser (usually Chrome) implements a useful new feature. What happens is Chrome releases a Chrome-only non-standard (at a rate of 400 APIs per year). It cobbles together a barely legible spec [1], and then uses its multiple propaganda channels like web.dev to present them as actual completed standards that other browsers are just slow to implement. Even if other browsers only learn about this a few days before Chrome ships, or have multiple objections. [1] Example, File System API https://wicg.github.io/file-system-access/ https://wicg.github.io/file-system-access/ "not a W3C Standard nor is it on the W3C Standards Track."
- tomayac 4y ago
  Please see https://developer.chrome.com/blog/capabilities/#how-will-we-design-implement-these-new-capabilities https://developer.chrome.com/blog/capabilities/#how-will-we-... for the actual process. Nothing happens behind closed doors; other vendors can chime in at any time, and are actually very much encouraged to do so.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    That's a nice sentiment at the link. The reality is that Chrome ships hundreds of APIs with little to no input and only barely notifies other browser vendors that "yeah, we're shipping it". We're literally in the discussion about File System API that is: - not on any standards track - considered harmful by other browser vendors - shipped by default in Chrome Edit: I can give several examples from Web Transport to HID to Constructible Stylesheets that were either shipped with no input from other vendors, or shipped against the multiple objections from other browser vendors. And that's just the ones I know about.
    - encryptluks2 4y ago
      Simply not true but believe what you need to.
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        I literally provided just some of the examples. Those are easily verifiable. Web Transport is shipped by default. What was the input from other browsers? Here's the timeline for HID: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/459#issuecomment-886271967 https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/459#is... Constructible Stylesheets: the spec contained a trivially reproducible race condition, the API was badly specified. Google shipped against any objections and refused to bring it back under the flag. Full discussion here: https://github.com/WICG/construct-stylesheets/issues/45 https://github.com/WICG/construct-stylesheets/issues/45. Shipped in Chrome https://github.com/WICG/construct-stylesheets/issues/45#issuecomment-577781329 https://github.com/WICG/construct-stylesheets/issues/45#issu... (may be hidden on mobile) despite multiple unresolved issues. Two years later Chrome did add a better API that people originally requested, other issues potentially remain. You may believe in benevolent Google working hand in hand with others for the betterment of the web. The reality is radically different. Edit: more about hardware APIs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34356651 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34356651 Edit2: As to the number of APIs, Chrome actually tracks how much they ship: https://web-confluence.appspot.com/#!/confluence https://web-confluence.appspot.com/#!/confluence

tomayac 4y ago

The Origin Private File System is coming to all browsers, Chrome, Safari, and Firefox. It's a universally agreed-on Web standard: https://fs.spec.whatwg.org/ https://fs.spec.whatwg.org/.

DylanSp 4y ago
Just because the standard exists doesn't mean every browser has already implemented 100% of it, hence why I was asking if anyone's had any experience actually trying to use it. EDIT: I saw from your other comments on this post that Firefox has implemented at least the origin private file system part in nightly builds; that's useful info that I was looking for.
- tomayac 4y ago
  Yeah, sorry. There’s a lot of side threads to read and potentially respond to.
- madeofpalk 4y ago
  Feb 2022 Safari said it's available in Safari in macOS 12.2 and iOS 15.2 https://webkit.org/blog/12257/the-file-system-access-api-with-origin-private-file-system/ https://webkit.org/blog/12257/the-file-system-access-api-wit... However the sqlite demo page says OPFS is unavailable for me in Safari https://sqlite-wasm-opfs.glitch.me/ https://sqlite-wasm-opfs.glitch.me/ ...unsure whether it only supports a subset of the APIs that the official sqlite build uses?

skybrian 4y ago

The underlying API seems to be available for multiple browsers but not Firefox yet: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/FileSystemFileHandle/createSyncAccessHandle#browser_compatibility https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/FileSystemF...