4 ms·

Unless they're ok with you taking three years off work paid, it's not "unlimited". And honestly it shouldn't be legal to call it that. Really what has happene

Unless they're ok with you taking three years off work paid, it's not "unlimited". And honestly it shouldn't be legal to call it that. Really what has happened is that vacation has changed from a guaranteed X days per year to 0 guaranteed days and only at manager discretion.

j0hnyl 4y ago
I've worked at multiple "unlimited pto" companies and my experience has not been this at all. Unlimited PTO = we won't babysit what you do with your time as long as you pull your weight.
- hombre_fatal 4y ago
  But that’s also the problem. When you need the vacation the most because your work performance is suffering and you’re stressed out because of it, you’re least likely to take the vacation due to social pressure. “Unlimited vacation” is a bad deal because of that. I basically burned out at my first job and didn’t take vacation once because I always felt behind on a team of three devs that never was caught up. I can see unlimited vacation working in less dysfunctional jobs though, but everything works better in those. The more dysfunctional a job is, the more you need to be able to reach for the vacation lever.
  - j0hnyl 4y ago
    Good point, and I think that's valid. I would say that it's not a bad deal, but it's probably as good as your manager. Sorry to hear about your burnout.
- gigel82 4y ago
  In other words: we expect you to deliver 100% of the time at 100%+, constantly, throughout the year. So if you take vacation, you better work your ass off when you come back to make up for it. That's the difference from normal PTO.
  - j0hnyl 4y ago
    With normal PTO you are still expected to pull your weight...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - gigel82 4y ago
      Not for the time you're on vacation. Explicitly, no one expects you to "make up" for that time, and you might even get a few days or so (depending on your vacation length) to ease back in.
      - j0hnyl 4y ago
        I've personally never had this experience at the unlimited PTO companies I've worked at, but I have had awful experiences with PTO at the start of my career when every company had fixed PTO. I really think it all depends on management.
PretzelPirate 4y ago
> And honestly it shouldn't be legal to call it that For general clarity: it's the Verge who is calling it "unlimited". Microsoft is specifically calling it "discresionary". It's not great reporting.
- jxidjhdhdhdhfhf 4y ago
  Important clarification, thanks. I'm ok with that terminology and it aligns well with the idea that this is more about limiting vacation and eliminating accrued leave payouts.

j0hnyl 4y ago

I've worked at multiple "unlimited pto" companies and my experience has not been this at all. Unlimited PTO = we won't babysit what you do with your time as long as you pull your weight.

hombre_fatal 4y ago
But that’s also the problem. When you need the vacation the most because your work performance is suffering and you’re stressed out because of it, you’re least likely to take the vacation due to social pressure. “Unlimited vacation” is a bad deal because of that. I basically burned out at my first job and didn’t take vacation once because I always felt behind on a team of three devs that never was caught up. I can see unlimited vacation working in less dysfunctional jobs though, but everything works better in those. The more dysfunctional a job is, the more you need to be able to reach for the vacation lever.
- j0hnyl 4y ago
  Good point, and I think that's valid. I would say that it's not a bad deal, but it's probably as good as your manager. Sorry to hear about your burnout.
gigel82 4y ago
In other words: we expect you to deliver 100% of the time at 100%+, constantly, throughout the year. So if you take vacation, you better work your ass off when you come back to make up for it. That's the difference from normal PTO.
- j0hnyl 4y ago
  With normal PTO you are still expected to pull your weight...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - gigel82 4y ago
    Not for the time you're on vacation. Explicitly, no one expects you to "make up" for that time, and you might even get a few days or so (depending on your vacation length) to ease back in.
    - j0hnyl 4y ago
      I've personally never had this experience at the unlimited PTO companies I've worked at, but I have had awful experiences with PTO at the start of my career when every company had fixed PTO. I really think it all depends on management.

PretzelPirate 4y ago

> And honestly it shouldn't be legal to call it that For general clarity: it's the Verge who is calling it "unlimited". Microsoft is specifically calling it "discresionary". It's not great reporting.

jxidjhdhdhdhfhf 4y ago
Important clarification, thanks. I'm ok with that terminology and it aligns well with the idea that this is more about limiting vacation and eliminating accrued leave payouts.