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Is Bitcoin a Ponzi? How exactly?

lalaland1125 4y ago
The only way to make money investing in Bitcoin is to convince a greater fool to buy your coins for more than you paid for them. And that greater fool must in turn convince an even greater fool, etc, etc It's not a Ponzi, but it has similar dynamics to a Ponzi in that you can only gain money through other people losing money.
- krunck 4y ago
  Why does it have to be about making money? Bitcoin is a currency, not an investment. That's where a lot people get confused.
  - rubyist5eva 4y ago
    Bitcoin will never gain mass adoption as a currency, that leaves it as a "value store" - and the only people buying bitcoin are suckers buying bitcoin from others in the hope that they can in turn sell it to a bigger sucker down the line.
  - lalaland1125 4y ago
    It's because that is the primary "use case" of Bitcoin right now as Bitcoin is even worse at being at currency than an investment. Bad price stability, slow transactions, high fees under any amount of load, bad privacy, terrible adoption, etc, etc
  - Arainach 4y ago
    The overwhelming majority of holders of Bitcoin disagree with you. It's a garbage currency - fees are too high, transfers too slow. It's a garbage technology that encourages wanton energy wastage. Its only "value" is as an investment.
permo-w 4y ago
Bitcoin isn’t a ponzi scheme. no crypto is really a ponzi scheme, but a lot of them have similar characteristics. basically they’re fine while people are continuously investing in them, but once people lose interest they drop off a cliff. but then you could say that about any volatile investment
- mschuster91 4y ago
  > but then you could say that about any volatile investment Or even about modern fiat currencies. Just look at the Turkish Lira (~343% vs EUR / 5y), Argentinian Peso (~758% vs EUR / 5y) or a dozen other currencies that lost insane amounts of value over the last years [1], mostly because of political misgovernance and resulting economic devastation. [1] https://www.goldseiten.de/kurse/devisen-topflop.php https://www.goldseiten.de/kurse/devisen-topflop.php
- roundandround 4y ago
  I can't really agree with that. Any investment is supposed to have a return that exceeds inflation or some other reasonable index, eventually in the eyes of some kind of reasonable investor. If it doesn't meet that criteria then it is more likely a social phenomenon interchangeable with scam instead of a valid investment, i.e. a pump and dump OTC stock is an investment being involved in a scam if it has acquired actual rights or business that have a small probability of paying off significantly better than inflation that's not easy to disprove with basic research. It is a pure scam if the underlying company is only on paper or generally incapable of actually doing anything it claims because it was created or is pumped with just enough cash to continue to operate purely for the purpose of having a stock but is incapable of ever making a real profit. Some coins may be different than what I described as a scam, but if you accept that only holding value remains as a probable use of BTC then any suggestion of it as a valid investment or holder of value is a scam.

The only way to make money investing in Bitcoin is to convince a greater fool to buy your coins for more than you paid for them. And that greater fool must in turn convince an even greater fool, etc, etc It's not a Ponzi, but it has similar dynamics to a Ponzi in that you can only gain money through other people losing money.

krunck 4y ago
Why does it have to be about making money? Bitcoin is a currency, not an investment. That's where a lot people get confused.
- rubyist5eva 4y ago
  Bitcoin will never gain mass adoption as a currency, that leaves it as a "value store" - and the only people buying bitcoin are suckers buying bitcoin from others in the hope that they can in turn sell it to a bigger sucker down the line.
- lalaland1125 4y ago
  It's because that is the primary "use case" of Bitcoin right now as Bitcoin is even worse at being at currency than an investment. Bad price stability, slow transactions, high fees under any amount of load, bad privacy, terrible adoption, etc, etc
- Arainach 4y ago
  The overwhelming majority of holders of Bitcoin disagree with you. It's a garbage currency - fees are too high, transfers too slow. It's a garbage technology that encourages wanton energy wastage. Its only "value" is as an investment.

permo-w 4y ago

Bitcoin isn’t a ponzi scheme. no crypto is really a ponzi scheme, but a lot of them have similar characteristics. basically they’re fine while people are continuously investing in them, but once people lose interest they drop off a cliff. but then you could say that about any volatile investment

mschuster91 4y ago
> but then you could say that about any volatile investment Or even about modern fiat currencies. Just look at the Turkish Lira (~343% vs EUR / 5y), Argentinian Peso (~758% vs EUR / 5y) or a dozen other currencies that lost insane amounts of value over the last years [1], mostly because of political misgovernance and resulting economic devastation. [1] https://www.goldseiten.de/kurse/devisen-topflop.php https://www.goldseiten.de/kurse/devisen-topflop.php
roundandround 4y ago
I can't really agree with that. Any investment is supposed to have a return that exceeds inflation or some other reasonable index, eventually in the eyes of some kind of reasonable investor. If it doesn't meet that criteria then it is more likely a social phenomenon interchangeable with scam instead of a valid investment, i.e. a pump and dump OTC stock is an investment being involved in a scam if it has acquired actual rights or business that have a small probability of paying off significantly better than inflation that's not easy to disprove with basic research. It is a pure scam if the underlying company is only on paper or generally incapable of actually doing anything it claims because it was created or is pumped with just enough cash to continue to operate purely for the purpose of having a stock but is incapable of ever making a real profit. Some coins may be different than what I described as a scam, but if you accept that only holding value remains as a probable use of BTC then any suggestion of it as a valid investment or holder of value is a scam.