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Ask HN: How can I find a German family by their crest?
I just inherited a ring that has been passed down in my family since WWI. My great grandfather (who was a scoundrel) took a brooch off of a dead German officer in 1915 in Belgium. He had it converted into a ring.
In 1931, my great grandfather coincidentally met the brother of the dead officer. The brother saw the ring and said, "That looks remarkably like a brooch that has been in my family in Bavaria for a long time."
I'm not actually sure if it's a crest, now that I write this. And it's pretty small. If possible, I'd love to figure out how to get it back to that family, but I have no idea where to begin.
- mbnull 4y agoMaybe you can find a search mask for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siebmachers_Wappenbuch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siebmachers_Wappenbuch somewhere. Edit: source https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Siebmachers_Wappenbuch https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Siebmachers_Wappenbuch
- londons_explore 4y agoPost on reddits /r/whatisthisthing They can find almost anything.
- TSiege 4y agoReddit would be my bet as well
- hprotagonist 4y agoYou will have to ask some heralds. You probably have a "badge", which is a diminuitive/selected feature set of a "crest". The design elements of a crest or badge are described as as "a blazon". https://pro-heraldica.de/en/heraldry/ https://pro-heraldica.de/en/heraldry/ https://pro-heraldica.de/en/heraldry/terms-of-heraldry/ https://pro-heraldica.de/en/heraldry/terms-of-heraldry/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_heraldry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_heraldry https://heraldica.hypotheses.org/1767 https://heraldica.hypotheses.org/1767 heraldric blazons are their own little DSL, so you'll need to know how to encode the crest into that language. And of course, it's not just one language; it's many that vary by nation-state-ish-thing, time, etc. You'll want to find a herald who knows about the continental blazoning styles. a database of german arms from ~1600+: https://data.cerl.org/siebmacher/_search/ https://data.cerl.org/siebmacher/_search/
- jansan 4y agoAdd this to the list: https://eherold.org/wappenliste/ https://eherold.org/wappenliste/
- dghf 4y ago> You probably have a "badge", which is a diminuitive/selected feature set of a "crest". Maybe things are different in German heraldry, but in English heraldry, a badge need bear no relation to the owner's coat of arms or crest -- for example, the Tudor Rose of Henry VII (arms: the fleurs-de-lys of France quartered with the lions of England; crest: a crowned lion in a standing pose), or the Stafford knot of the dukes of Buckingham (arms: a red chevron on a gold background). In England at least, the key difference between a coat of arms (with or without a crest) and a badge is that the former could only be properly worn/carried/displayed by its owner (and his heralds), while the latter could be worn by his followers as a sign of allegiance.
- hprotagonist 4y agowhat you say is true for england and sometimes france, for certain, and likely about germany too. germans are different, though: iirc they allow two metals to touch, too, and other stuff. it’s also possible that OP has a badge of a city or council or guild or whatever too.
- vadansky 4y agoCanada has one too! https://www.gg.ca/en/heraldry/public-register https://www.gg.ca/en/heraldry/public-register
- blueflow 4y agoI'd probably just post it here or on Reddit, there are people who'd take up the challenge for free.
- ogig 4y agoI'd try a google lens, or google image search, as a first try. Reddit and history stackexchange could prove useful too.
- sakex 4y agoHave you tried Google Lens?
- shimonabi 4y agoIf the OP would just post a picture of the ring he would probably have the answer by now.
- christophilus 4y agoGood point. I don’t have it in my possession yet, but I’ll post it again when I do. I’ll try Reddit as well.
- googlryas 4y agoIs your reddit username the same as this one? I want to see the ring and how long it takes reddit to solve it.
- christophilus 4y agoNo, it’s not. I’ll have it in a few weeks, I think, so I’ll see if I can post an update then. Otherwise, I’ll make a new HN post just so interested folks can find it.
- ROTMetro 4y agoWell this account is burnt now and linked to whatever account next posts a bavarian looking ring on Reddit. Someone with a super strange post history on Reddit is this very moment making such a post just for the lols.
- anotheryou 4y agoIn theory in here are a lot: https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Koerner%2C%20Bernhard%2C%201875-%20ed%22 https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Koerner%2C...
- ekpyrotic 4y agoIn spite of all the various potential high-tech solutions -- i.e., Google Lens -- I would strongly advise just contacting an antiques brooch specialist. They will know where to look, or may even know the crest from taking an immediate look. I love the power of technology to make knowledge accessible, but sometimes I feel that we forget that deep expertise exists in people too. There will be someone -- if not a couple of people -- have have likely spent their full life /only/ learning about Bavarian brooches.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- eddsh1994 4y agoAt least in the Nordic countries there's a book released every 5 years with a list of all noble families including the very minor ones, and all currently living members of said families, with their crests. There's probably a German equivalent if you look for it and you could find it there.
- scanny 4y agoFirst step is to post a link to an image of the supposed crest.
- SHAKEDECADE 4y agoTry the Heraldry subreddit. Those people love this stuff. https://old.reddit.com/r/heraldry/ https://old.reddit.com/r/heraldry/
- Bouncingsoul1 4y agohttps://www.heimat-bayern.de/fachbereiche/heimatpflege-und-heimatforschung/heimatpfleger.html https://www.heimat-bayern.de/fachbereiche/heimatpflege-und-h... In Bavaria we have "Heimatpfleger" on communal level which are knowlegable about stuff like this. Maybe ask the statelevel parent organisatiim (link above) and they may forward you to the correct Heimatpfleger
- themulticaster 4y agoWhen I opened HN today I really did not expect to find a comment mentioning the Bayerischer Landesverein für Heimatpflege e.V.
- isbjorn16 4y agowell, you should have, and that's on you.
- leobm 4y agoit is also best to ask at https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/ https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/
- smcl 4y agoIt sounds like an interesting thing to look up. One thing you might want to remember though is that some in Europe, Irish and Scots particularly, get a kick out of winding up guys from America who look a bit gullible and inquire about some connection they have to someone’s country. You’d be surprised how many times I’ve heard Oh you’re from Scotland, do you know Kenneth/Hamish/Calum/etc?” and it is genuinely tempting to say “Yes” and make something silly up. So just mentally prepare yourself that this could end up being the punchline of a joke that was originally told 100 years back :-)
- jimnotgym 4y agoDon't leave out the English or Welsh. Winding up Americans unites the UK.
- christophilus 4y agoIt’s so easy to do, so how can you resist?
- smcl 4y agoOh no doubt but, and no offence to the English intended, I think the number of Americans who will proudly say "I'm a quarter English!" is miniscule compared to those claiming the same for Irish or Scottish and I haven't heard anyone claiming Welsh heritage personally (despite there being a decent number of American Jones-es)
- mometsi 4y agoI happen to be extraordinarily familiar with a similar situation (long story). I think you should be careful who you discuss this with, particularly if the previous owners might get involved. My advice would be to go to Bavaria yourself, and destroy the ring.
- Filligree 4y agoWhy? And why on earth in Bavaria?
- darknavi 4y agoIf we do not heed the lessons of the past, we are doomed to repeat them. https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/One_Ring https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/One_Ring
- athorax 4y agoBecause the hearts of men are easily corrupted
- jonfw 4y agoThe only place that the ring can be destroyed is the place where it was forged
- hef19898 4y agoThen it would be Belgium...
- dharmab 4y agoHave you ever heard of an event called the First World War?
- hef19898 4y ago>> I just inherited a ring that has been passed down in my family since WWI. My great grandfather (who was a scoundrel) took a brooch off of a dead German officer in 1915 in Belgium. He had it converted into a ring. Yes, and that's why I assume the brooch was converted to a ring in Belgium...
- defulmere 4y agoThe Society for Creative Anachronism has a heraldry group on Facebook there that might be able to help you (if you're on FB): https://www.facebook.com/groups/SCAHeraldryChat https://www.facebook.com/groups/SCAHeraldryChat
- d3vmax 4y agoGoogle lens
- speedylight 4y agoUse r/whatisthisthing that subreddit is like the research department of the internet.
- weinzierl 4y agoI'm based in Munich (with roots in north-eastern Bavaria), so if you have something specific only a local can do to help, I can see what I can do. Contact details are in my profile.
- eternityforest 4y agoIf it's heraldic, it's sometimes pretty easy to figure out the blazon (The verbal description, which is considered the real definition, the actual picture can have artistic license) for simple things, and then a search can often tell you.