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In my opinion 90% of the reason we don’t have more accidents is because people are so predictable. Watch dangerous drivers weave through traffic - it’s only pos

In my opinion 90% of the reason we don’t have more accidents is because people are so predictable. Watch dangerous drivers weave through traffic - it’s only possible because everyone follows spoken and unspoken rules. Randomly stopping is not some “you need to be prepared, it’s your fault” moment.

rendall 4y ago
> Randomly stopping is not some “you need to be prepared, it’s your fault” moment. Drivers are indeed expected to always be prepared for sudden stops even at the highest speeds.
kosievdmerwe 4y ago
A car switching into an empty lane and then stopping hard even more. If a human driver did it deliberately as the Tesla did (since it was designed to pull over and stop) then I would consider it a criminal level traffic violation on the part of the stopping car.
- apigalore 4y ago
  I had an accident exactly like that. Car in front of me fully stopped all of a sudden as I was accelerating. This was right passed the lights. No traffic or anything in front him. I don't know why he stopped. My insurance told me he was 100% at fault.
  - ArteEtMarte 4y ago
    Here in the UK, that happened to me on a roundabout. Elderly driver in front pulled out and then, for no visible reason, slammed on the brakes. I ran into the back of her. It was deemed to be be 100% my fault. Here, if you run into the back of the car in front, it is always your fault. No exceptions. It makes sense: you should always leave enough room to stop, so I couldn't really complain. But, if everybody did that on that particular busy roundabout, it would result in gridlock.
    - sniglom 4y ago
      >It makes sense If you think like a good citizen, yes. In a country north of UK the law was once the same. People with worn down cars would find the perfect opportunity to slam their brakes, intentionally get hit from behind and claim insurance.
    - Dzugaru 4y ago
      I've heard a story from a friend that was in an accident like that. A police officer who did the paperwork smiled and said "It's the most common type of accident - people just stop paying attention to the car in front that started moving, and develop sort of a blind spot to that". I drive for several years, and can say my brain relies heavily on this sort of predictable stuff like "that car has free intersection in front of it, it will move forward".
      - qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
        Crashed at a intersection into the driver in front of me. Started driving, and i looked wethere there was traffic coming from the left, the other driver in front of me stopped for no reason. Still my fault, but in some situations, with multiple dangers, you rely heavily on the people behaving predictable.
samwillis 4y ago
The other day I was driving behind a car on a country road, he did an emergency stop to avoid a rabbit in the road. I avoided hitting him, I stopped about 2m from him because I was careful to leave enough space. If I had hit him I'm sure the insurance companies would have placed blame on me and it would have been my insurance that paid out. But ultimately it would have been his "fault" for doing something utterly unpredictable and dangerously stupid. If it had been a large deer, of course he should have stopped, at that point it's the safety of the people inside the car. In law for insurance purposes it needs to be clear cut, person behind is almost always at fault. But that doesn't mean they are the cause of the accident in all cases. There is nuance to these things, and part of that is that braking for a rabbit, or using Level 2 automation, is increasing the chance of an accident happing on the road. If the way you drive increases the risk of someone driving into the back of you, even if they haven't left enough space, you are at fault in my mind.
- dkrich 4y ago
  This reasoning makes very little sense to me. Why drive assuming that it will be a rabbit most of the time and not a child or a deer or whatever you deem worthy of stopping for? If the possibility exists that a driver in front of you may stop suddenly why not always leave a minimum amount of space for a safe stop considering there is virtually no downside to doing so?
  - samwillis 4y ago
    Thats not my point. You should, and I do, always leave enough space to stop, but not everyone does. Being a safe driver is being aware that other people, including the people behind you, may not be leaving enough space. Suddenly stopping for a rabbit, from a speed of 50mph, is f-ing stupid and massively increasing the risk of a serious accident on the road. Using a Level 2 automation that can randomly stop for no reason is not safe driving, you are increasing the chances that someone who is too close drives into the back of you. Just because someone else is driving unsafely doesn't absolve you of the responsibility of being aware of that and not driving safely yourself.
    - 4y ago
jmyeet 4y ago
I cycle a lot in an area that is quite touristy. There is a lot of shared infrastructure with pedestrians, rollerbladers, scooters and skateboarders. You get very good at spotting people who don’t know what they’re doing that are potentially dangerous usually because they’re oblivious to their surroundings. For example, pedestrians crossing a bike path. Because a lot of people clearly don’t walk often they will just walk out without looking. People aware of their surroundings will look both ways. As soon as you see someone do that you can pass close to them without spooking them because you know they’re aware. My point here is a ton of this comes down to acting predictably. Even a simple act like looking at someone will alleviate a ton of uncertainty. The barriers to fully autonomous self-driving are huge and not necessarily technical. Acting predictably, being able to explain actions, drivers driving differently because another vehicle is automated and cultural differences.

rendall 4y ago

> Randomly stopping is not some “you need to be prepared, it’s your fault” moment. Drivers are indeed expected to always be prepared for sudden stops even at the highest speeds.

kosievdmerwe 4y ago

A car switching into an empty lane and then stopping hard even more. If a human driver did it deliberately as the Tesla did (since it was designed to pull over and stop) then I would consider it a criminal level traffic violation on the part of the stopping car.

apigalore 4y ago
I had an accident exactly like that. Car in front of me fully stopped all of a sudden as I was accelerating. This was right passed the lights. No traffic or anything in front him. I don't know why he stopped. My insurance told me he was 100% at fault.
- ArteEtMarte 4y ago
  Here in the UK, that happened to me on a roundabout. Elderly driver in front pulled out and then, for no visible reason, slammed on the brakes. I ran into the back of her. It was deemed to be be 100% my fault. Here, if you run into the back of the car in front, it is always your fault. No exceptions. It makes sense: you should always leave enough room to stop, so I couldn't really complain. But, if everybody did that on that particular busy roundabout, it would result in gridlock.
  - sniglom 4y ago
    >It makes sense If you think like a good citizen, yes. In a country north of UK the law was once the same. People with worn down cars would find the perfect opportunity to slam their brakes, intentionally get hit from behind and claim insurance.
  - Dzugaru 4y ago
    I've heard a story from a friend that was in an accident like that. A police officer who did the paperwork smiled and said "It's the most common type of accident - people just stop paying attention to the car in front that started moving, and develop sort of a blind spot to that". I drive for several years, and can say my brain relies heavily on this sort of predictable stuff like "that car has free intersection in front of it, it will move forward".
    - qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
      Crashed at a intersection into the driver in front of me. Started driving, and i looked wethere there was traffic coming from the left, the other driver in front of me stopped for no reason. Still my fault, but in some situations, with multiple dangers, you rely heavily on the people behaving predictable.

samwillis 4y ago

The other day I was driving behind a car on a country road, he did an emergency stop to avoid a rabbit in the road. I avoided hitting him, I stopped about 2m from him because I was careful to leave enough space. If I had hit him I'm sure the insurance companies would have placed blame on me and it would have been my insurance that paid out. But ultimately it would have been his "fault" for doing something utterly unpredictable and dangerously stupid. If it had been a large deer, of course he should have stopped, at that point it's the safety of the people inside the car. In law for insurance purposes it needs to be clear cut, person behind is almost always at fault. But that doesn't mean they are the cause of the accident in all cases. There is nuance to these things, and part of that is that braking for a rabbit, or using Level 2 automation, is increasing the chance of an accident happing on the road. If the way you drive increases the risk of someone driving into the back of you, even if they haven't left enough space, you are at fault in my mind.

dkrich 4y ago
This reasoning makes very little sense to me. Why drive assuming that it will be a rabbit most of the time and not a child or a deer or whatever you deem worthy of stopping for? If the possibility exists that a driver in front of you may stop suddenly why not always leave a minimum amount of space for a safe stop considering there is virtually no downside to doing so?
- samwillis 4y ago
  Thats not my point. You should, and I do, always leave enough space to stop, but not everyone does. Being a safe driver is being aware that other people, including the people behind you, may not be leaving enough space. Suddenly stopping for a rabbit, from a speed of 50mph, is f-ing stupid and massively increasing the risk of a serious accident on the road. Using a Level 2 automation that can randomly stop for no reason is not safe driving, you are increasing the chances that someone who is too close drives into the back of you. Just because someone else is driving unsafely doesn't absolve you of the responsibility of being aware of that and not driving safely yourself.
  - 4y ago

jmyeet 4y ago

I cycle a lot in an area that is quite touristy. There is a lot of shared infrastructure with pedestrians, rollerbladers, scooters and skateboarders. You get very good at spotting people who don’t know what they’re doing that are potentially dangerous usually because they’re oblivious to their surroundings. For example, pedestrians crossing a bike path. Because a lot of people clearly don’t walk often they will just walk out without looking. People aware of their surroundings will look both ways. As soon as you see someone do that you can pass close to them without spooking them because you know they’re aware. My point here is a ton of this comes down to acting predictably. Even a simple act like looking at someone will alleviate a ton of uncertainty. The barriers to fully autonomous self-driving are huge and not necessarily technical. Acting predictably, being able to explain actions, drivers driving differently because another vehicle is automated and cultural differences.