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I think the insistence on having data for every possible situation for training purposes is indicative of the problem. Humans only require a small amount of tra

I think the insistence on having data for every possible situation for training purposes is indicative of the problem. Humans only require a small amount of training and can extrapolate this to many situations.

ajross 4y ago
This is really very wrong. Human beings create exactly this kind of accident every day. There is absolutely nothing remotely"non-human" about cutting someone off and stopping in traffic.[1] Just go check /r/idiotsincars for an hour to see much, much worse. [1] In fact, this is so unlike FSD's behavior that I still think it's more likely that it will turn out not to have been in use at all. The only evidence at hand is one sentence in a police report that the police themselves state was unvalidated. How easy would it be to blame the car as an excuse?
- osigurdson 4y ago
  The bar for FSD should not be /r/idiotsincars. What doesn't add up to me however, is the need to have training data for every possible situation that a vehicle could encounter (FSD should reason based on more fundamental axioms). Also, the "cameras only" argument makes sense only to a point. Yes, we drive largely by 400-800 THz photons. However, the eye has incredibly good anti-occluding abilities where a stationary camera can be occluded by a spec of dust. In any case, I am not taking an anti-self-driving stance by any means - we'll get there eventually. Tesla is leading the way and taking all of the negative press.
- 93po 4y ago
  People lie about having FSD enabled all the time. And the internet loves shitting on Tesla so they'll treat unverified claims as fact and then perpetuate it forever as long as it fits their narrative.
  - osigurdson 4y ago
    I don’t disagree. I think what is happening is we all thought FSD would be available by now. Since it is not, we are now collectively dismissing it. The world will be much better with FSD however so let’s give it a chance.
    - 93po 4y ago
      Technically it is - it's just in beta. There has been a full rollout. Anyone who's purchased it can use it. And obviously needs work, but it's also not the death trap people like to make it out to be.
    - ajross 4y ago
      It literally drives me around every day. Seems pretty good for a product that is "not available".
      - osigurdson 4y ago
        If it is ever necessary to take over then it is largely pointless. The only value is helping us get to the point where you can chill in the back seat.
        ajross 4y ago
        Don't you feel the goalposts moving here? You went from "Humans never make mistakes like FSD does" to "FSD doesn't work yet" to "FSD works, but I don't think it has value yet". And you got called out on all of those and shifted. Maybe you could agree to settle on: FSD works pretty well, seems not to be unsafe vs. human drivers, but isn't finished, and is improving rapidly? Might have saved us all some time.
        osigurdson 4y ago
        Moving goalposts and having a nuanced view are not the same thing. I agree with your statement above except that human drivers are still obviously better on average. Looking forward to when that changes.

ajross 4y ago

This is really very wrong. Human beings create exactly this kind of accident every day. There is absolutely nothing remotely"non-human" about cutting someone off and stopping in traffic.[1] Just go check /r/idiotsincars for an hour to see much, much worse. [1] In fact, this is so unlike FSD's behavior that I still think it's more likely that it will turn out not to have been in use at all. The only evidence at hand is one sentence in a police report that the police themselves state was unvalidated. How easy would it be to blame the car as an excuse?

osigurdson 4y ago
The bar for FSD should not be /r/idiotsincars. What doesn't add up to me however, is the need to have training data for every possible situation that a vehicle could encounter (FSD should reason based on more fundamental axioms). Also, the "cameras only" argument makes sense only to a point. Yes, we drive largely by 400-800 THz photons. However, the eye has incredibly good anti-occluding abilities where a stationary camera can be occluded by a spec of dust. In any case, I am not taking an anti-self-driving stance by any means - we'll get there eventually. Tesla is leading the way and taking all of the negative press.
93po 4y ago
People lie about having FSD enabled all the time. And the internet loves shitting on Tesla so they'll treat unverified claims as fact and then perpetuate it forever as long as it fits their narrative.
- osigurdson 4y ago
  I don’t disagree. I think what is happening is we all thought FSD would be available by now. Since it is not, we are now collectively dismissing it. The world will be much better with FSD however so let’s give it a chance.
  - 93po 4y ago
    Technically it is - it's just in beta. There has been a full rollout. Anyone who's purchased it can use it. And obviously needs work, but it's also not the death trap people like to make it out to be.
  - ajross 4y ago
    It literally drives me around every day. Seems pretty good for a product that is "not available".
    - osigurdson 4y ago
      If it is ever necessary to take over then it is largely pointless. The only value is helping us get to the point where you can chill in the back seat.
      - ajross 4y ago
        Don't you feel the goalposts moving here? You went from "Humans never make mistakes like FSD does" to "FSD doesn't work yet" to "FSD works, but I don't think it has value yet". And you got called out on all of those and shifted. Maybe you could agree to settle on: FSD works pretty well, seems not to be unsafe vs. human drivers, but isn't finished, and is improving rapidly? Might have saved us all some time.
        osigurdson 4y ago
        Moving goalposts and having a nuanced view are not the same thing. I agree with your statement above except that human drivers are still obviously better on average. Looking forward to when that changes.