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That would make total sense had Germany not been making all of the wrong moves and relatively in bed with Russia the entire time, as opposed to the United State
by RhodesianHunter 4y ago
That would make total sense had Germany not been making all of the wrong moves and relatively in bed with Russia the entire time, as opposed to the United States' support of Ukraine and anti-corruption movements there.
In your imagined scenario everything regarding Ukraine would be worse off, not better.
- chihuahua 4y agoI would like to understand why Germany loves Russia so much, despite what's happened over the past year. There was all kinds of funny business with Nordstream, Manuela Schleswig's fishy "foundation", and more. I can understand Schroeder - he's just getting paid by Putin every year. But Scholz? It seems that every month he makes up a different reason why Germany can't properly support Ukraine. A few helmets and kevlar vests and a handful of Gepards without ammunition, but Leopard 2s? God no, we couldn't possibly do that, it might hurt Putin's feelings! It seems he wants to give Ukraine just enough to watch them slowly bleed out. Is it just that Putin is paying off most of the German politicians, and has been doing so for years? I guess they're pretty cheap to buy, and they're completely shameless about it - just look at Schroeder.
- drran 4y agoIMHO, Ukrainians should grab Königsberg for themselves after the end of war and then exchange it for something useful, e.g. exchange it for Transnistria with Moldova, instead of returning Königsberg to Germany.
- twaw 4y agoYeah, let's ruin our diplomatic relationships with Germany and Moldova, then try to join EU and NATO. Why we need to try exchange Transnistria for Konigsberg in the first place?
- drran 4y agoRussian 14th army may strike from the back to support the main army, so they should be made toothless before the second wave of invasion, but Ukraine cannot attack 14th army without breaking relationships with Moldova, EU, UN, and NATO. However, Ukraine can exchange this problem (Transnistria) for another problem (Königsberg) to negate them both. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_presence_in_Transnistria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_presence_in_T... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobasna_ammunition_depot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobasna_ammunition_depot
- trasz3 4y ago[dead]
- Hithredin 4y agoBut Koningsberg is czech!
- drran 4y agoKönigsberg was part of Germany when annexed by Soviet Union. I see no page about Königsberg in Czech language at Wikipedia at all. Anyway, Germans were expelled, so Königsberg is populated by Russians now, which makes it similar to Transnistria, Crimea, etc.
- marssaxman 4y agoLast October, a petition for the Czech republic to annex the region received over 20k signatures. This led to many jokes: https://www.petice.com/petice_za_vyhlaeni_referenda_o_pipojeni_kaliningradu_k_eske_republice https://www.petice.com/petice_za_vyhlaeni_referenda_o_pipoje...
- int_19h 4y agoThe best thing Europe could do to Kaliningrad is encourage a separatist movement there. There's not much Russia could do about it if they had a consensus to separate, and being an exclave of a pariah country in the middle of foreign hostile territory is not exactly conductive to day-to-day living. If there was a clear (if unspoken) understanding that such an entity, once it clearly breaks up with Russia, would be admitted to EU under the usual rules, I think it could be sold. And then? You have a piece of territory that is ethnically and culturally Russian, but integrated into Europe instead of that whole "Russian World" nonsense. That can be used as an agitprop showcase to contrast with Russia proper, especially as things get worse there as economy starts feeling more long-term effects from sanctions.
- ambrozk 4y agoIt's organic political opinion. For one thing, Germans feel very real guilt for their invasion of Russia in WW2, and they don't like the idea of aiding in a war against it. For another, the experience of the Cold War was much more traumatic for them than it was for the US, and they're not eager to start a new one.
- chihuahua 4y agoDo the Germans not understand that they also invaded and destroyed Ukraine in WW2?
- ambrozk 4y agoThey do. They also understand that there collaborators were Ukrainian nationalists (who were extremely anti-semitic and enthusiastically participated in pogroms) who are increasingly venerated in Ukraine. As an American, I'm able to compartmentalize this, and rationalize that Ukrainians are venerating people like Bandera for their anti-Russian partisanship, not for their anti-Jewish politics. But this is less of an option for Germans, who for very understandable reasons have a greater sensitivity to anti-Semitism than most nations.
- kranke155 4y agoThe Anti-Semitism stuff is just a propaganda line invented by Vladislav Surkov (Russia’s Goebbels). Like all good propaganda, it contains a kernel of truth that’s expanded and dilated until it becomes nonsense. Believing in generalised Anti-Semitism and Nazism in Ukrainian society is like believing Saddam Hussein funded 9/11. It’s just a mind trick.
- ambrozk 4y agoI think everything I wrote is accurate. Bandera was a vicious anti-Semite. Bandera did collaborate with the Nazis. Bandera is venerated in Ukraine (since 2014 and especially since 2022). Maidan was made possible by armed support from neo-nazi political parties. Based on my reading, I do not think that Ukraine is a particularly anti-Semitic place, and I think that they like Bandera mainly because they see him as an anti-Russian fighter. But it's easy for me to understand why Germans are much more uncomfortable with the symbolism that I am.
- morsch 4y ago> A few helmets and kevlar vests and a handful of Gepards without ammunition, but Leopard 2s? German military support is in the same order of magnitude as other countries. Including heavy weapons. Don't bother linking news articles or opinion pieces. Here's an up-to-date primary source: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/publications/data-sets/ukraine-support-tracker-data-17410/ https://www.ifw-kiel.de/publications/data-sets/ukraine-suppo... It's totally fair to argue that Germany should deliver more stuff or heavier weapons, but the helmets and vests and corruption rhetoric is unwarranted.
- checkyoursudo 4y agoI agree with you, but part of the perception of Germany, including in GP comment, comes from Germany's hesitation to be as vocally supportive of Ukr, and from Germany's hesitation to take the risk on leading the way on supplying MBTs and other heavy weapons. For my entire life, Germany has acted like the leader of Europe, and now they have not either in words or deeds, which has colored the perception of ... not a few people. Germany has provided lots of aid, but they have been so damned shy about it, and never or at least rarely before other nations.
- chihuahua 4y agoGiven that Schroeder started working for Nord Stream within weeks of stepping down as Chancellor, later became manager of Nord Stream 2, was paid $350,000 per year as director of the board of Rosneft, and was nominated to the board of directors of Gazprom, is it really unwarranted to point out that he was bought and paid for as Putin's servant?
- morsch 4y agoIt's hard to argue with that, but I don't think you can generalise it to all German politicians or even the current government on the whole.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]