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Energy policy has been the gravest mistake in recent European history and it wasn’t for lack of viable alternatives. We Europeans like to make fun of Americans

Energy policy has been the gravest mistake in recent European history and it wasn’t for lack of viable alternatives. We Europeans like to make fun of Americans, but at least they managed to become energy independent in the same time span. All that we have in Europe is a shrinking industrial base and the largest war on European soil in 80 years (yet I’m sure we will still find a way to feel morally superior to the rest of the world somehow).

farseer 4y ago
You are looking at this the wrong way. Europe's problem is not its dependence on Russian energy but but its inability to say no to America and Britain when that duo interfere in mainland security matters. Its mind boggling that a country of Germany's size and might can't tell America to fuck off "Ukraine is not going to be in your sphere of influence". The tapped phone call between American diplomats back in 2014 was supposed to expose the outsize American role in Ukraine right before Russia seized Crimea: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
- RhodesianHunter 4y ago
  That would make total sense had Germany not been making all of the wrong moves and relatively in bed with Russia the entire time, as opposed to the United States' support of Ukraine and anti-corruption movements there. In your imagined scenario everything regarding Ukraine would be worse off, not better.
  - chihuahua 4y ago
    I would like to understand why Germany loves Russia so much, despite what's happened over the past year. There was all kinds of funny business with Nordstream, Manuela Schleswig's fishy "foundation", and more. I can understand Schroeder - he's just getting paid by Putin every year. But Scholz? It seems that every month he makes up a different reason why Germany can't properly support Ukraine. A few helmets and kevlar vests and a handful of Gepards without ammunition, but Leopard 2s? God no, we couldn't possibly do that, it might hurt Putin's feelings! It seems he wants to give Ukraine just enough to watch them slowly bleed out. Is it just that Putin is paying off most of the German politicians, and has been doing so for years? I guess they're pretty cheap to buy, and they're completely shameless about it - just look at Schroeder.
    - drran 4y ago
      IMHO, Ukrainians should grab Königsberg for themselves after the end of war and then exchange it for something useful, e.g. exchange it for Transnistria with Moldova, instead of returning Königsberg to Germany.
      - twaw 4y ago
        Yeah, let's ruin our diplomatic relationships with Germany and Moldova, then try to join EU and NATO. Why we need to try exchange Transnistria for Konigsberg in the first place?
        drran 4y ago
        Russian 14th army may strike from the back to support the main army, so they should be made toothless before the second wave of invasion, but Ukraine cannot attack 14th army without breaking relationships with Moldova, EU, UN, and NATO. However, Ukraine can exchange this problem (Transnistria) for another problem (Königsberg) to negate them both. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_presence_in_Transnistria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_presence_in_T... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobasna_ammunition_depot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobasna_ammunition_depot
        trasz3 4y ago
        [dead]
      - Hithredin 4y ago
        But Koningsberg is czech!
        drran 4y ago
        Königsberg was part of Germany when annexed by Soviet Union. I see no page about Königsberg in Czech language at Wikipedia at all. Anyway, Germans were expelled, so Königsberg is populated by Russians now, which makes it similar to Transnistria, Crimea, etc.
- toberoni 4y ago
  Germany has been lacking a coherent security strategy. They neglected the Bundeswehr for decades and in recent years doubled down on their dependency on Russian fossil fuel (one could argue this was a mutual interdependency as German companies were crucial for the Russian arms industry). Apart from the far right/left everyone in Germany (that I know) is thankful for America's support in Eastern Europe. Most of these people had no goodwill towards the US military before this war - mainly due to the shameful campaigns in Afghanistan/Iraq. But they also realized that the German/Western European security 'strategy' regarding Russia was a big failure.
  - jdkee 4y ago
    Plus Germany's half-century long anti-nuclear stance does them a disservice.
  - rjzzleep 4y ago
    If that is a thing that bothers you, one of the people that made sure that the Bundeswehr never recovers was that corrupt von der Leyen. She was MoD, funnelled a bunch of money to her McKinsey son, and then went on to become the head of European Commission. With someone like that at the helm of the EU, you don't need enemies. The sibling comment mentions Germany's nuclear policy. It's worth noting that Germany at the EU tried to lobby against nuclear to deprive France out of EU support for Green energy. They have an irrational hate for nuclear energy, but it's not limited to nuclear energy. Somehow the once antiwar Green party has become the party of warmongering and coal lobbying. Germany during the Kohl administration shut killed fibre optics infrastructure projects to fight the influence of public TV and promote cable TV. [1] So this is at least 4 decades of ideological mismanagement. I'd say the respect for German infrastructure is the work that has been done after the war up until then. [1] https://netzpolitik.org/2018/danke-helmut-kohl-kabelfernsehen-statt-glasfaserausbau/ https://netzpolitik.org/2018/danke-helmut-kohl-kabelfernsehe...
    - xenonite 4y ago
      In eastern Germany at least, Telekom laid fibers after 1993.
  - 4y ago
- alexvoda 4y ago
  Always the "sphere of influence" crap rhetoric. We all know Russia WANTS a sphere of influence. But why should Russia have a sphere of influence? What is so special about Russia that you believe it deserves such a thing? Russia isn't even able to protect those currently in its sphere of influence (CSTO), as we can see in Armenia. Nukes? The DPRK has nukes. Should the DPRK have a sphere of influence? Should India and Pakistan have their spheres of influence? Should everyone get nukes just to guarantee their own sovereignty? Economy? Pre-war Russia was economically the size of Italy. The ex-Warsaw Pact countries joined NATO of their own initiative precisely to be as far away from Russia as possible. Because being in the Russian sphere of influence means having your people sent to the gulag in Siberia. If the war achieved anything for Russia, it's putting Russia firmly inside Chinas sphere of influence.
  - raspberry1337 4y ago
    America has the exact same policy not only in the entire North and South America, but also in the Middle east and elsewhere. I agree that what Russia is doing is morally disastrous but rationally, they are doing exactly what the US and everyone else is doing.
    - Eisenstein 4y ago
      'But your honor, I should allowed to do this thing because I saw someone else do it!'
      - raspberry1337 4y ago
        'Sir, you're accusing your neighbour of painting his house red. Your house is red."
        Eisenstein 4y ago
        Your honor, the fact that my house is red does not make his house not red. My house being red is irrelevant.
phas0ruk 4y ago
America has more natural resources than Europe. That’s just luck.
- est31 4y ago
  Luck is one component, but you are more lucky if you have more land. EU population density is 112 people per square kilometer, US has 36 per square kilometer. EU area is 4.2 million square kilometers, US has more than double of that, with a smaller population. Also, low population density helps with extraction. A lot of the USA is desert where nobody is living so only few people will complain about fracking messing up their life.
- Gasp0de 4y ago
  More fossil ressources that they burn in ignorance of the damage they are doing to the world.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  With the invention of fracking, the EU could have essentially unlimited natural gas for the next century, but they can’t because it was banned and due to the nature of property rights. The fracking revolution could only have happened in the US due to how property rights are managed interestingly…

farseer 4y ago

You are looking at this the wrong way. Europe's problem is not its dependence on Russian energy but but its inability to say no to America and Britain when that duo interfere in mainland security matters. Its mind boggling that a country of Germany's size and might can't tell America to fuck off "Ukraine is not going to be in your sphere of influence". The tapped phone call between American diplomats back in 2014 was supposed to expose the outsize American role in Ukraine right before Russia seized Crimea: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

RhodesianHunter 4y ago
That would make total sense had Germany not been making all of the wrong moves and relatively in bed with Russia the entire time, as opposed to the United States' support of Ukraine and anti-corruption movements there. In your imagined scenario everything regarding Ukraine would be worse off, not better.
- chihuahua 4y ago
  I would like to understand why Germany loves Russia so much, despite what's happened over the past year. There was all kinds of funny business with Nordstream, Manuela Schleswig's fishy "foundation", and more. I can understand Schroeder - he's just getting paid by Putin every year. But Scholz? It seems that every month he makes up a different reason why Germany can't properly support Ukraine. A few helmets and kevlar vests and a handful of Gepards without ammunition, but Leopard 2s? God no, we couldn't possibly do that, it might hurt Putin's feelings! It seems he wants to give Ukraine just enough to watch them slowly bleed out. Is it just that Putin is paying off most of the German politicians, and has been doing so for years? I guess they're pretty cheap to buy, and they're completely shameless about it - just look at Schroeder.
  - drran 4y ago
    IMHO, Ukrainians should grab Königsberg for themselves after the end of war and then exchange it for something useful, e.g. exchange it for Transnistria with Moldova, instead of returning Königsberg to Germany.
    - twaw 4y ago
      Yeah, let's ruin our diplomatic relationships with Germany and Moldova, then try to join EU and NATO. Why we need to try exchange Transnistria for Konigsberg in the first place?
      - drran 4y ago
        Russian 14th army may strike from the back to support the main army, so they should be made toothless before the second wave of invasion, but Ukraine cannot attack 14th army without breaking relationships with Moldova, EU, UN, and NATO. However, Ukraine can exchange this problem (Transnistria) for another problem (Königsberg) to negate them both. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_presence_in_Transnistria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_presence_in_T... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobasna_ammunition_depot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobasna_ammunition_depot
        trasz3 4y ago
        [dead]
    - Hithredin 4y ago
      But Koningsberg is czech!
      - drran 4y ago
        Königsberg was part of Germany when annexed by Soviet Union. I see no page about Königsberg in Czech language at Wikipedia at all. Anyway, Germans were expelled, so Königsberg is populated by Russians now, which makes it similar to Transnistria, Crimea, etc.
toberoni 4y ago
Germany has been lacking a coherent security strategy. They neglected the Bundeswehr for decades and in recent years doubled down on their dependency on Russian fossil fuel (one could argue this was a mutual interdependency as German companies were crucial for the Russian arms industry). Apart from the far right/left everyone in Germany (that I know) is thankful for America's support in Eastern Europe. Most of these people had no goodwill towards the US military before this war - mainly due to the shameful campaigns in Afghanistan/Iraq. But they also realized that the German/Western European security 'strategy' regarding Russia was a big failure.
- jdkee 4y ago
  Plus Germany's half-century long anti-nuclear stance does them a disservice.
- rjzzleep 4y ago
  If that is a thing that bothers you, one of the people that made sure that the Bundeswehr never recovers was that corrupt von der Leyen. She was MoD, funnelled a bunch of money to her McKinsey son, and then went on to become the head of European Commission. With someone like that at the helm of the EU, you don't need enemies. The sibling comment mentions Germany's nuclear policy. It's worth noting that Germany at the EU tried to lobby against nuclear to deprive France out of EU support for Green energy. They have an irrational hate for nuclear energy, but it's not limited to nuclear energy. Somehow the once antiwar Green party has become the party of warmongering and coal lobbying. Germany during the Kohl administration shut killed fibre optics infrastructure projects to fight the influence of public TV and promote cable TV. [1] So this is at least 4 decades of ideological mismanagement. I'd say the respect for German infrastructure is the work that has been done after the war up until then. [1] https://netzpolitik.org/2018/danke-helmut-kohl-kabelfernsehen-statt-glasfaserausbau/ https://netzpolitik.org/2018/danke-helmut-kohl-kabelfernsehe...
  - xenonite 4y ago
    In eastern Germany at least, Telekom laid fibers after 1993.
- 4y ago
alexvoda 4y ago
Always the "sphere of influence" crap rhetoric. We all know Russia WANTS a sphere of influence. But why should Russia have a sphere of influence? What is so special about Russia that you believe it deserves such a thing? Russia isn't even able to protect those currently in its sphere of influence (CSTO), as we can see in Armenia. Nukes? The DPRK has nukes. Should the DPRK have a sphere of influence? Should India and Pakistan have their spheres of influence? Should everyone get nukes just to guarantee their own sovereignty? Economy? Pre-war Russia was economically the size of Italy. The ex-Warsaw Pact countries joined NATO of their own initiative precisely to be as far away from Russia as possible. Because being in the Russian sphere of influence means having your people sent to the gulag in Siberia. If the war achieved anything for Russia, it's putting Russia firmly inside Chinas sphere of influence.
- raspberry1337 4y ago
  America has the exact same policy not only in the entire North and South America, but also in the Middle east and elsewhere. I agree that what Russia is doing is morally disastrous but rationally, they are doing exactly what the US and everyone else is doing.
  - Eisenstein 4y ago
    'But your honor, I should allowed to do this thing because I saw someone else do it!'
    - raspberry1337 4y ago
      'Sir, you're accusing your neighbour of painting his house red. Your house is red."
      - Eisenstein 4y ago
        Your honor, the fact that my house is red does not make his house not red. My house being red is irrelevant.

phas0ruk 4y ago

America has more natural resources than Europe. That’s just luck.

est31 4y ago
Luck is one component, but you are more lucky if you have more land. EU population density is 112 people per square kilometer, US has 36 per square kilometer. EU area is 4.2 million square kilometers, US has more than double of that, with a smaller population. Also, low population density helps with extraction. A lot of the USA is desert where nobody is living so only few people will complain about fracking messing up their life.
Gasp0de 4y ago
More fossil ressources that they burn in ignorance of the damage they are doing to the world.
mensetmanusman 4y ago
With the invention of fracking, the EU could have essentially unlimited natural gas for the next century, but they can’t because it was banned and due to the nature of property rights. The fracking revolution could only have happened in the US due to how property rights are managed interestingly…