5 ms·

If autopilot starts braking even slightly and it shouldn't, I immediately take control. For this to happen, the driver clearly was not prepared to take control

If autopilot starts braking even slightly and it shouldn't, I immediately take control. For this to happen, the driver clearly was not prepared to take control in any way. It's like driving on cruise control with your legs crossed. The automated cruise control and lane-keep on my previous car, an Audi, would occasionally do crazy things too. The hyper-focus on this being Tesla's fault continues to baffle.

whatever1 4y ago
Well it’s the only company that charges 20k for “full self driving capability”
- pensatoio 4y ago
  Since it's a highway, the car would have been operating on autopilot, not FSD. The two stacks had not, and I think still have not been merged.
  - darknavi 4y ago
    In fact all Tesla's sold today come with basic lane keeping (but not auto change lane).
wyldfire 4y ago
> autopilot starts braking even slightly and it shouldn't, I immediately take control I think this is the thing that makes the most sense. But if I were to bend over backwards giving the benefit of the doubt - is it possible the driver feared resuming the previous speed because they were worried the car saw an obstacle that they couldn't? Like the article suggests - if you're not fully engaged, it's as if you're driving impaired. And there's so much automated that it's difficult to be so vigilant. Once the car starts braking, how much latency can I afford just assessing what caused it to slow down? How hard is it braking and how closely is traffic following me?
- pensatoio 4y ago
  This is anecdotal, but I'm always looking at the road. If the car starts braking, (and this isn't exclusive to Tesla,) I already know if there is an obstacle or not, and my foot is always hovering over the pedals. I feel like such a shill responding to these comments, but based on my experience, these same drivers would get into accidents in other brand's cars as well. We only focus on the story because it's Tesla. I'm not sure what the solution is.
greenthrow 4y ago
Tesla has much more of an issue with phantom braking than any other manufacturer because they chose to rely only on cameras, and that system simply does not work as well when it comes to this particular issue. Additionally, how can you blame the driver? Did you watch the video? It's not as if the car slowly stopped. It slammed on the brakes. There wasn't time for the driver to correct for this before the car behind -- which Autopilot had just moved in front of -- slammed into them. Tesla's Autopilot and Full Self Driving get a lot of focus and criticism for two big reasons; 1) their product names clearly and deliberately paints a picture that the features do not live up to and disclaimers do not fix that. 2) they are unsafe on public roads as they operate today. They are a menace to public safety.
- pensatoio 4y ago
  Driving in traffic (or in a city in general) with my foot off the pedals sounds borderline insane. I know this is anecdotal, but I've experienced multiple brands slamming on the brakes. You must be prepared to intervene. It's not a Tesla problem. I think we hyper-focus on Tesla because their system is the best. This is a problem for all automated driving systems (even the basic ones found in almost all brands now.)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mandevil 4y ago
Because the Audi doesn't charge users $10,000-20,000USD for "Full Self Driving," that's why we talk about it so much! If you throw it in as a safety feature in your deluxe package, and describe it as such, we aren't having this conversation. On the other hand, I strongly suspect that if they didn't do that, TSLA never gets to worth more than all other car companies in the entire world combined in market cap terms, and Elon Musk is never able to afford to buy TWTR, so one can see why he would do it. What is the reason I should pay all of this extra money and still have to maintain full focus and attention on the road around me at all times? What is the market for it unless it's for me to be able to zone out more while driving? Umpty-years ago I worked on robot tanks for the US Army, and we had a devil of a time answering this question. If the driver still has to be fully monitoring a single vehicle at all times, why isn't s/he driving it directly? What benefit does this not-quite real self-driving provide? Our soldiers told us that it mostly got in their way, because they wanted it go over here and the computer wanted it to go over there, and so they felt like they were fighting the computer more than anything else. It is possible that someone will come up with a better adjudication than we did, but it really made me question whether any level between 2 and 5 is actually useful to anyone.
- pensatoio 4y ago
  To be fair, Autopilot, which this driver was using, is included with all Teslas at no extra cost. Personally, I find that road trips are significantly less draining with Autopilot engaged. In the same way that moving from basic cruise control to radar cruise control with lane-keep reduced some load, Autopilot takes it a step further. The difference is noticable. Remaining attentive and ready doesn't negate the benefits.

whatever1 4y ago

Well it’s the only company that charges 20k for “full self driving capability”

pensatoio 4y ago
Since it's a highway, the car would have been operating on autopilot, not FSD. The two stacks had not, and I think still have not been merged.
- darknavi 4y ago
  In fact all Tesla's sold today come with basic lane keeping (but not auto change lane).

wyldfire 4y ago

> autopilot starts braking even slightly and it shouldn't, I immediately take control I think this is the thing that makes the most sense. But if I were to bend over backwards giving the benefit of the doubt - is it possible the driver feared resuming the previous speed because they were worried the car saw an obstacle that they couldn't? Like the article suggests - if you're not fully engaged, it's as if you're driving impaired. And there's so much automated that it's difficult to be so vigilant. Once the car starts braking, how much latency can I afford just assessing what caused it to slow down? How hard is it braking and how closely is traffic following me?

pensatoio 4y ago
This is anecdotal, but I'm always looking at the road. If the car starts braking, (and this isn't exclusive to Tesla,) I already know if there is an obstacle or not, and my foot is always hovering over the pedals. I feel like such a shill responding to these comments, but based on my experience, these same drivers would get into accidents in other brand's cars as well. We only focus on the story because it's Tesla. I'm not sure what the solution is.

greenthrow 4y ago

Tesla has much more of an issue with phantom braking than any other manufacturer because they chose to rely only on cameras, and that system simply does not work as well when it comes to this particular issue. Additionally, how can you blame the driver? Did you watch the video? It's not as if the car slowly stopped. It slammed on the brakes. There wasn't time for the driver to correct for this before the car behind -- which Autopilot had just moved in front of -- slammed into them. Tesla's Autopilot and Full Self Driving get a lot of focus and criticism for two big reasons; 1) their product names clearly and deliberately paints a picture that the features do not live up to and disclaimers do not fix that. 2) they are unsafe on public roads as they operate today. They are a menace to public safety.

pensatoio 4y ago
Driving in traffic (or in a city in general) with my foot off the pedals sounds borderline insane. I know this is anecdotal, but I've experienced multiple brands slamming on the brakes. You must be prepared to intervene. It's not a Tesla problem. I think we hyper-focus on Tesla because their system is the best. This is a problem for all automated driving systems (even the basic ones found in almost all brands now.)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

mandevil 4y ago

Because the Audi doesn't charge users $10,000-20,000USD for "Full Self Driving," that's why we talk about it so much! If you throw it in as a safety feature in your deluxe package, and describe it as such, we aren't having this conversation. On the other hand, I strongly suspect that if they didn't do that, TSLA never gets to worth more than all other car companies in the entire world combined in market cap terms, and Elon Musk is never able to afford to buy TWTR, so one can see why he would do it. What is the reason I should pay all of this extra money and still have to maintain full focus and attention on the road around me at all times? What is the market for it unless it's for me to be able to zone out more while driving? Umpty-years ago I worked on robot tanks for the US Army, and we had a devil of a time answering this question. If the driver still has to be fully monitoring a single vehicle at all times, why isn't s/he driving it directly? What benefit does this not-quite real self-driving provide? Our soldiers told us that it mostly got in their way, because they wanted it go over here and the computer wanted it to go over there, and so they felt like they were fighting the computer more than anything else. It is possible that someone will come up with a better adjudication than we did, but it really made me question whether any level between 2 and 5 is actually useful to anyone.

pensatoio 4y ago
To be fair, Autopilot, which this driver was using, is included with all Teslas at no extra cost. Personally, I find that road trips are significantly less draining with Autopilot engaged. In the same way that moving from basic cruise control to radar cruise control with lane-keep reduced some load, Autopilot takes it a step further. The difference is noticable. Remaining attentive and ready doesn't negate the benefits.