3 ms·

This is a bug in the meat, and is not going away. The problems are well understood, thanks to decades of examples in semi-automated trains, boats, airplanes, an

This is a bug in the meat, and is not going away. The problems are well understood, thanks to decades of examples in semi-automated trains, boats, airplanes, and industrial monitoring systems. Until "self driving" is good enough that you're legally allowed to ride it drunk, it should not be allowed to do anything more complicated than radar cruise and lane-keeping.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
threeseed 4y ago
This is a bug in Tesla's specific meat. Other self driving implementations e.g. Cruise, Waymo have LiDAR which is an additional and in my opinion necessary sensor for detecting objects. Because in this case it sure looks like a phantom breaking issue.
- borissk 4y ago
  Yeah, it looks like one of those cases where Elon is being stupid - self-driving cars with LiDAR are a lot safer. Anyone know how much a LiDAR system cost nowadays?
  - m_mueller 4y ago
    Heck, my $400 vacuum robot has lidar and its advantage when navigating are immediately obvious to anyone paying attention. Rather than cost it feels more like laziness - sensor fusion is hard, so let’s just delete the problem.
- darknavi 4y ago
  Is it really a Tesla specific issue? Tesla's definitely phantom brake quite a bit, but it seems like many automated cruise control implementations do this today. https://www.motorsafety.org/us-government-investigates-1-7-million-honda-cars-over-phantom-braking/ https://www.motorsafety.org/us-government-investigates-1-7-m... https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/phantom-braking-experienced-in-the-mache-for-the-first-time-7-months-in.9376/ https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/phantom-braking-expe... https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/ok-lets-talk-phantom-braking.47782/ https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/ok-lets-talk-phantom-braki...
  - SyzygistSix 4y ago
    And to me the crux of the matter is whether the systems are safer despite any phantom braking. The focus on perfection rather than improvement is surprising to see on HN.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    It is Tesla specific in the sense that they refuse to use LiDAR. All those examples just reinforce my point that it's a necessary sensor.
- Sophistifunk 4y ago
  Tesla doesn't sell meat, the meat is what's weighing down the front seat.
borissk 4y ago
It depends on what the priorities are. If self-driving is allowed now, it may lead to a few accidents, but the tech will progress faster and we will have very safe FSD cars sooner. On the other hand the sooner we get FSD cars, the sooner we will also get ASI and with it potentially the end of human kind.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

threeseed 4y ago

This is a bug in Tesla's specific meat. Other self driving implementations e.g. Cruise, Waymo have LiDAR which is an additional and in my opinion necessary sensor for detecting objects. Because in this case it sure looks like a phantom breaking issue.

borissk 4y ago
Yeah, it looks like one of those cases where Elon is being stupid - self-driving cars with LiDAR are a lot safer. Anyone know how much a LiDAR system cost nowadays?
- m_mueller 4y ago
  Heck, my $400 vacuum robot has lidar and its advantage when navigating are immediately obvious to anyone paying attention. Rather than cost it feels more like laziness - sensor fusion is hard, so let’s just delete the problem.
darknavi 4y ago
Is it really a Tesla specific issue? Tesla's definitely phantom brake quite a bit, but it seems like many automated cruise control implementations do this today. https://www.motorsafety.org/us-government-investigates-1-7-million-honda-cars-over-phantom-braking/ https://www.motorsafety.org/us-government-investigates-1-7-m... https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/phantom-braking-experienced-in-the-mache-for-the-first-time-7-months-in.9376/ https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/phantom-braking-expe... https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/ok-lets-talk-phantom-braking.47782/ https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/ok-lets-talk-phantom-braki...
- SyzygistSix 4y ago
  And to me the crux of the matter is whether the systems are safer despite any phantom braking. The focus on perfection rather than improvement is surprising to see on HN.
- threeseed 4y ago
  It is Tesla specific in the sense that they refuse to use LiDAR. All those examples just reinforce my point that it's a necessary sensor.
Sophistifunk 4y ago
Tesla doesn't sell meat, the meat is what's weighing down the front seat.

borissk 4y ago

It depends on what the priorities are. If self-driving is allowed now, it may lead to a few accidents, but the tech will progress faster and we will have very safe FSD cars sooner. On the other hand the sooner we get FSD cars, the sooner we will also get ASI and with it potentially the end of human kind.