4 ms·

Yep, "unlimited vacation" sounds nice the first time you hear it. Until you realize that it doesn't mean you can take 8 weeks/yr of vacation, it just means that

Yep, "unlimited vacation" sounds nice the first time you hear it. Until you realize that it doesn't mean you can take 8 weeks/yr of vacation, it just means that how much vacation you get is no longer clearly defined and you have to work it out with your manager. And also, the company no longer has to pay you for vacation you don't take.

cyanydeez 4y ago
Right, it's a reduction in benefits. And I'm no accountant but I'm pretty sure since vacation time used to be guaranteed, it had to be carried as a liability and this change means debt relief. As such, I reminded my employer multiple times during our annual review that they reduced my compensation.
xt00 4y ago
A good way to fix this and relieve the stress for the employees but get the PTO debt burden thing off the books is to just call it RTO.. recommended time off.. pick a number and say “while PTO is unlimited we have a recommended number that we hope most employees will target.. our RTO is 4 weeks for employees less than 4 years and 6 weeks for employees after 4 years.. again this is flexible, but this is our recommendation”
- jxidjhdhdhdhfhf 4y ago
  The fix is just to have accrued PTO. That way employees know how much they are allowed to take and if they get laid off or business needs prevent them from being able to use it, they get a payout.
tracker1 4y ago
Exactly true on the latter part. The main reason for "unlimited" vacation is to remove the debt load from the books. Vacation accrued and unpaid is debt that is owed out, and owed if they terminate someone. Not sure how this might affect any downsizing in the near term for existing "earned" vacation time.
aliqot 4y ago
I'd prefer a 'guaranteed minimum vacation' and 'unlimited accrual and any-time buybacks'. I'm one of those people that doesn't mind working a year or two if it means I can then vanish for a few months straight and do a proper reset on vacation.
marssaxman 4y ago
You always did have to work it out with your manager; that's not new. What is new, and better for me, is that vacation time no longer feels like a scarce, nonrenewable resource, so I no longer feel compelled to hoard it. Instead of deciding whether some camping trip or festival or ski weekend is special enough to justify burning a few of those precious vacation days, often choosing instead to save them up in case of a more important occasion later in the year, I can just... go do the fun thing. No bookkeeping, no worries. I've had jobs with "unlimited vacation" policies for quite a few years now and I still do prefer it.
- farnsworth 4y ago
  That only works if you are taking more vacation than you were before
  - marssaxman 4y ago
    It works because I take as much vacation as I feel inclined to, and I don't have to care how many days that is. I get what I want, so what difference does it make whether that's more or less? If you have more of a maximizing attitude about your benefits, I suppose you might have a harder time enjoying an "unlimited PTO" policy, because it's not really possible to know whether you've squeezed all the juice out of it.
    - armitron 4y ago
      I'd rather have a guaranteed benefit (that, ideally, carries over from year to year and is fully paid out when I leave the company) than the gray area that you're describing which in practice is nothing more than the company being exploitative and relying on psychological dark patterns to trick gullible employees. In my previous job, I quit with three months of unused vacation time, and I received three months of salary fully paid out. Not possible with "unlimited PTO". Furthermore, try taking 2+ months of vacation in a year and see how quickly you're called to have a meeting with the Bobs.
      - 4y ago

cyanydeez 4y ago

Right, it's a reduction in benefits. And I'm no accountant but I'm pretty sure since vacation time used to be guaranteed, it had to be carried as a liability and this change means debt relief. As such, I reminded my employer multiple times during our annual review that they reduced my compensation.

xt00 4y ago

A good way to fix this and relieve the stress for the employees but get the PTO debt burden thing off the books is to just call it RTO.. recommended time off.. pick a number and say “while PTO is unlimited we have a recommended number that we hope most employees will target.. our RTO is 4 weeks for employees less than 4 years and 6 weeks for employees after 4 years.. again this is flexible, but this is our recommendation”

jxidjhdhdhdhfhf 4y ago
The fix is just to have accrued PTO. That way employees know how much they are allowed to take and if they get laid off or business needs prevent them from being able to use it, they get a payout.

tracker1 4y ago

Exactly true on the latter part. The main reason for "unlimited" vacation is to remove the debt load from the books. Vacation accrued and unpaid is debt that is owed out, and owed if they terminate someone. Not sure how this might affect any downsizing in the near term for existing "earned" vacation time.

aliqot 4y ago

I'd prefer a 'guaranteed minimum vacation' and 'unlimited accrual and any-time buybacks'. I'm one of those people that doesn't mind working a year or two if it means I can then vanish for a few months straight and do a proper reset on vacation.

marssaxman 4y ago

You always did have to work it out with your manager; that's not new. What is new, and better for me, is that vacation time no longer feels like a scarce, nonrenewable resource, so I no longer feel compelled to hoard it. Instead of deciding whether some camping trip or festival or ski weekend is special enough to justify burning a few of those precious vacation days, often choosing instead to save them up in case of a more important occasion later in the year, I can just... go do the fun thing. No bookkeeping, no worries. I've had jobs with "unlimited vacation" policies for quite a few years now and I still do prefer it.

farnsworth 4y ago
That only works if you are taking more vacation than you were before
- marssaxman 4y ago
  It works because I take as much vacation as I feel inclined to, and I don't have to care how many days that is. I get what I want, so what difference does it make whether that's more or less? If you have more of a maximizing attitude about your benefits, I suppose you might have a harder time enjoying an "unlimited PTO" policy, because it's not really possible to know whether you've squeezed all the juice out of it.
  - armitron 4y ago
    I'd rather have a guaranteed benefit (that, ideally, carries over from year to year and is fully paid out when I leave the company) than the gray area that you're describing which in practice is nothing more than the company being exploitative and relying on psychological dark patterns to trick gullible employees. In my previous job, I quit with three months of unused vacation time, and I received three months of salary fully paid out. Not possible with "unlimited PTO". Furthermore, try taking 2+ months of vacation in a year and see how quickly you're called to have a meeting with the Bobs.
    - 4y ago