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It's a beautiful vision, and I mean that. But I must also ask: How much more in taxes should Californians pay for the privilege? Give it a number. Because your

by tomcam 4y ago

It's a beautiful vision, and I mean that. But I must also ask: How much more in taxes should Californians pay for the privilege? Give it a number. Because your average HN reader in California is paying close to 60% of their salary in state and federal taxes.

gallopingcomp 4y ago
I don’t know how rich the average HN reader is but, for a bit of perspective: I’m solidly middle class and I only pay about 30% total (and that’s if you include property taxes).
- tomcam 4y ago
  Do you live in California?
  - gallopingcomp 4y ago
    Yes (should be obvious from context). This includes federal, state, and local taxes. Edit: point being, if your taxes are super high, it's usually a combination of very high income & owning very expensive property. Edit 2: if you have very LOW income and own very expensive property, then you could end up with astronomical tax rates overall if you include property taxes. But that's usually not what people talk about in this context, and is kind of a separate problem (cost of housing).
mikeyouse 4y ago
I appreciate that taxes are higher in California than many places - but a married couple earning $300k pays much closer to 26% in income tax, and 5% in FICA/SS in California. https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-paycheck-calculator#nnIlm5MSSJ https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-paycheck-calculator#... Not even an argument for tunnels, people just have really warped views of tax burden in the US.
- splistud 4y ago
  [dead]
gallopingcomp 4y ago
Note that in these contexts (comparing with European, Asian cities) tunnels are typically employed to (1) carry mass transit (which requires and in turn supports density), and (2) carry through traffic through dense urban centers without having to take up as much surface space. Keep in mind that low-density sprawl is likely to * create much higher infrastructure costs (in terms of streets, utilities, etc) per capita (I believe Strong Towns has written extensively on this topic); * force more people to buy, drive, & maintain a car (and spend more time commuting) when they would not otherwise need to (if you like driving, good for you, but it isn't for everyone).

by tomcam 4y ago

gallopingcomp 4y ago

I don’t know how rich the average HN reader is but, for a bit of perspective: I’m solidly middle class and I only pay about 30% total (and that’s if you include property taxes).

tomcam 4y ago
Do you live in California?
- gallopingcomp 4y ago
  Yes (should be obvious from context). This includes federal, state, and local taxes. Edit: point being, if your taxes are super high, it's usually a combination of very high income & owning very expensive property. Edit 2: if you have very LOW income and own very expensive property, then you could end up with astronomical tax rates overall if you include property taxes. But that's usually not what people talk about in this context, and is kind of a separate problem (cost of housing).

mikeyouse 4y ago

I appreciate that taxes are higher in California than many places - but a married couple earning $300k pays much closer to 26% in income tax, and 5% in FICA/SS in California. https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-paycheck-calculator#nnIlm5MSSJ https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-paycheck-calculator#... Not even an argument for tunnels, people just have really warped views of tax burden in the US.

splistud 4y ago
[dead]

gallopingcomp 4y ago

Note that in these contexts (comparing with European, Asian cities) tunnels are typically employed to (1) carry mass transit (which requires and in turn supports density), and (2) carry through traffic through dense urban centers without having to take up as much surface space. Keep in mind that low-density sprawl is likely to * create much higher infrastructure costs (in terms of streets, utilities, etc) per capita (I believe Strong Towns has written extensively on this topic); * force more people to buy, drive, & maintain a car (and spend more time commuting) when they would not otherwise need to (if you like driving, good for you, but it isn't for everyone).