6 ms·

I can’t be alone in being peeved at the misuse of “far right”. AFAIK no one on the right in modern US politics is espousing monarchy or totalitarianism (or at l

I can’t be alone in being peeved at the misuse of “far right”. AFAIK no one on the right in modern US politics is espousing monarchy or totalitarianism (or at least they think they’re against totalitarianism). Obviously these terms are relative and subjective but it just seems a pointless characterization that makes a readers eyes glaze. Say “parlor, the controversial social media company”, and the writing is less biased and more informative. I would similarly ignore a writer who suggested a pro-union group as “far left”. We’re all (hopefully) far more moderate (and aligned!) than we get credit for.

mbfg 4y ago
you'd have to compare the US far right, with other modern countries far right's i guess, to determine if it was accurate or not. You'd also need to compare the US far left against far left's in other modern countries. I'd suspect, that what goes for far left in the US is more positioned as moderate in other modern countries.
- unity1001 4y ago
  > US far left What. The US doesn't even have a 'left'. Leave aside the 'far' kind of it.
  - KyeRussell 4y ago
    I bet that you rate everything either 4 or 5 stars, too. The point that OP is making is quite clear but you’re distracting the conversation with what’s essentially a Twitter quip.
    - unity1001 4y ago
      My comment is accurate. The lack of any left, leave aside 'far' left' in the US is the root of all of the problems that the US has. When something isnt balanced, it topples to one side. This applies to societies too. And the US is one such society toppled entirely to one side. Similarly, such false usage of terms like 'left', 'right' is also something that prevents the US society from analyzing the situation and making corrections. Anyone calls anything whatever they want without any concern for the meaning of actual terms. It ends up in anyone being able to create any false reality for themselves.
  - acdha 4y ago
    It definitely does. What you should be comparing are the relative sizes and almost nonexistent access to political power, which makes the difference quite clear.
    - unity1001 4y ago
      If the relative size of something is extremely small and it has nonexistent access to political power, it simply does not exist.
throwaway5959 4y ago
Jan 6 says otherwise.
- Philorandroid 4y ago
  Okay, I'll bite. If Jan 6 really was an attempt at revolution to install a dictator, it should be seen as a laughable and emasculate event proving how anemic the movement is/was -- Alec Baldwin has successfully killed more people than an entire mob of Trump supporters so oft characterized as gun-toting lunatics.
  - throwaway5959 4y ago
    Ok, so they’re incompetent fascists. ;)
    - Philorandroid 4y ago
      Inigo Montoya would like a word, speaking of the cry wolf effect.
  - erulabs 4y ago
    Additionally, and this premise is somewhat debatable, the people there didn't think they were installing a dictator. They thought they were protecting democracy somehow. Insane, mistaken, stupid, laughable.. Lots of words better describe what happened there.
    - RoboTeddy 4y ago
      It's true that many of the people on Jan 6 didn't view themselves as extreme and didn't realize they were being fascist — they probably mostly truly did believe they were protecting democracy — however this does not preclude them being de-facto fascists.
    - acdha 4y ago
      Mussolini held elections, too. People can believe that the will of the people was their party winning and never acknowledge that they actually lost fairly. It’s especially easy when you surround yourself with people who lie to you and assiduously avoid contradictory sources or critical thinking.
Philorandroid 4y ago
>it just seems a pointless characterization that makes a readers eyes glaze. On the contrary, they're priming their audience's opinions with masterful efficiency. They're making a bet that their readers will either nod in affirmation, or if they're not in the know about Parler, dismiss it out of hand. Not a defense of Parler on my part, but the cry wolf effect of labeling everything outside the sterile walled garden of limousine liberalism "far-right" is as tiresome as it is unhelpful.
- throwaway5959 4y ago
  Replace liberalism with “conservatism” and far-right with “far left” and it works just as well.
  - Philorandroid 4y ago
    Yes, the implication was that tribalism by intellectual default is bad.
oneoff786 4y ago
The poster child groups self identify as white nationalists. How is that not a far right thing? Parler is not moderate conservatives.
epups 4y ago
The Trump movement is a far-right movement by any definition of the word. Most of the users are Trump supporters. Saying unions are far left is not at all equivalent, considering unions do not represent a political movement that wants to overthrow democratic elections.
vb6sp6 4y ago
[dead]
reducesuffering 4y ago
> no one on the right in modern US politics is espousing monarchy or totalitarianism You're peeved, call it "misuse", and yet in the next sentence describe your ignorance. Curtis Yarvin (Moldbug) is an actual monarchist who has the ear of the #1 right wing news host, Tucker Carlson [0], Peter Thiel, and many others on the right. Marjorie Taylor Green is an actual self-described Christian Nationalist (theocracy like Iran). [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_8aT3pQo_I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_8aT3pQo_I
imustbeevil 4y ago
I mean if the people who believe those things vote Red, they're Red. You can use whatever terms you want, but if Red is the Right, then people who are Red and have views that are far from mainstream... I don't take offense at anyone being called far left or far right because I'm an independent. If Biden loses and Blue people storm the Capitol, they'd be terrorists too.
kthejoker2 4y ago
> The Montana Republican Party has ... a state representative named John Fuller, who published an opinion column in The Flathead Beacon earlier that year declaring that democracy had “failed as miserably as socialism." > Keith Regier, an influential state senator, said all laws should be based on Judeo-Christian principles. “The Ten Commandments were a good foundation for any country to live by,” he told me .. I told him that I’d heard other Montanans voice feelings of persecution because of the imposition of Christian doctrine. Was there a middle ground to be found? “There probably isn’t a middle,” he said. “You can’t have both.” > On the day after the Billings convention in July, couples filed into Grace Bible Church for the morning service. [Montana governor Greg] Gianforte greeted Hughes and a handful of the other parishioners before sitting down next to his wife and near two notable visitors: the Nebraska governor Pete Ricketts and Trump’s former press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, who were in Montana for a gathering of the Republican Governors Association. > Hughes yielded the stage to a visiting pastor named Brad Bigney, who dedicated much of the sermon to reassuring parishioners that, though they might feel uncertain, they had to believe that God was in control of their destinies. “We seem like a remnant,” Bigney said. “We seem weak. We seem like we don’t have enough resources. We seem — Hello, read your Bible! It always looks that way! I hear people saying now, ‘My America, I don’t even feel comfortable in my America.’ I get it. But this isn’t our final home,” he continued. “He’s testing us, you guys, and I’m sad to say we’ve got some believers that are failing the test. It looks like they never truly trusted in God and that’s being exposed now." > " They trusted in their country.” Nope, definitely not espousing anti-democratic, totalitarian ideas. Definitely not wanting to infringe on other's rights to ... well, what is their goal exactly? > If you want to live here,” Karla Johnson, a chapter president of the Montana Federation of Republican Women, said, “be a Christian.” Oh, cool then. ( https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/11/magazine/montana-republicans-christian-nationalism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/11/magazine/montana-republic... )
- jimmygrapes 4y ago
  I really don't think NY Times is interested in describing this particular gathering in anything but an intentionally negative light, yet even with that presumed bias I see only one statement there that seems even slightly offensive ("be a Christian") and it is presented in such a way that context not mentioned may or may not reduce the weirdness of it. Only somebody already dedicated to hatred of people espousing these beliefs would find those quoted bits to be "anti-democratic, totalitarian ideas". Take a step back, do some mad-libs and replace nouns with ones you'd prefer. It's a good exercise to see if maybe you're overreacting irrationally.

mbfg 4y ago

you'd have to compare the US far right, with other modern countries far right's i guess, to determine if it was accurate or not. You'd also need to compare the US far left against far left's in other modern countries. I'd suspect, that what goes for far left in the US is more positioned as moderate in other modern countries.

unity1001 4y ago
> US far left What. The US doesn't even have a 'left'. Leave aside the 'far' kind of it.
- KyeRussell 4y ago
  I bet that you rate everything either 4 or 5 stars, too. The point that OP is making is quite clear but you’re distracting the conversation with what’s essentially a Twitter quip.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    My comment is accurate. The lack of any left, leave aside 'far' left' in the US is the root of all of the problems that the US has. When something isnt balanced, it topples to one side. This applies to societies too. And the US is one such society toppled entirely to one side. Similarly, such false usage of terms like 'left', 'right' is also something that prevents the US society from analyzing the situation and making corrections. Anyone calls anything whatever they want without any concern for the meaning of actual terms. It ends up in anyone being able to create any false reality for themselves.
- acdha 4y ago
  It definitely does. What you should be comparing are the relative sizes and almost nonexistent access to political power, which makes the difference quite clear.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    If the relative size of something is extremely small and it has nonexistent access to political power, it simply does not exist.

throwaway5959 4y ago

Jan 6 says otherwise.

Philorandroid 4y ago
Okay, I'll bite. If Jan 6 really was an attempt at revolution to install a dictator, it should be seen as a laughable and emasculate event proving how anemic the movement is/was -- Alec Baldwin has successfully killed more people than an entire mob of Trump supporters so oft characterized as gun-toting lunatics.
- throwaway5959 4y ago
  Ok, so they’re incompetent fascists. ;)
  - Philorandroid 4y ago
    Inigo Montoya would like a word, speaking of the cry wolf effect.
- erulabs 4y ago
  Additionally, and this premise is somewhat debatable, the people there didn't think they were installing a dictator. They thought they were protecting democracy somehow. Insane, mistaken, stupid, laughable.. Lots of words better describe what happened there.
  - RoboTeddy 4y ago
    It's true that many of the people on Jan 6 didn't view themselves as extreme and didn't realize they were being fascist — they probably mostly truly did believe they were protecting democracy — however this does not preclude them being de-facto fascists.
  - acdha 4y ago
    Mussolini held elections, too. People can believe that the will of the people was their party winning and never acknowledge that they actually lost fairly. It’s especially easy when you surround yourself with people who lie to you and assiduously avoid contradictory sources or critical thinking.

Philorandroid 4y ago

>it just seems a pointless characterization that makes a readers eyes glaze. On the contrary, they're priming their audience's opinions with masterful efficiency. They're making a bet that their readers will either nod in affirmation, or if they're not in the know about Parler, dismiss it out of hand. Not a defense of Parler on my part, but the cry wolf effect of labeling everything outside the sterile walled garden of limousine liberalism "far-right" is as tiresome as it is unhelpful.

throwaway5959 4y ago
Replace liberalism with “conservatism” and far-right with “far left” and it works just as well.
- Philorandroid 4y ago
  Yes, the implication was that tribalism by intellectual default is bad.

oneoff786 4y ago

The poster child groups self identify as white nationalists. How is that not a far right thing? Parler is not moderate conservatives.

epups 4y ago

The Trump movement is a far-right movement by any definition of the word. Most of the users are Trump supporters. Saying unions are far left is not at all equivalent, considering unions do not represent a political movement that wants to overthrow democratic elections.

vb6sp6 4y ago

[dead]

reducesuffering 4y ago

> no one on the right in modern US politics is espousing monarchy or totalitarianism You're peeved, call it "misuse", and yet in the next sentence describe your ignorance. Curtis Yarvin (Moldbug) is an actual monarchist who has the ear of the #1 right wing news host, Tucker Carlson [0], Peter Thiel, and many others on the right. Marjorie Taylor Green is an actual self-described Christian Nationalist (theocracy like Iran). [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_8aT3pQo_I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_8aT3pQo_I

imustbeevil 4y ago

I mean if the people who believe those things vote Red, they're Red. You can use whatever terms you want, but if Red is the Right, then people who are Red and have views that are far from mainstream... I don't take offense at anyone being called far left or far right because I'm an independent. If Biden loses and Blue people storm the Capitol, they'd be terrorists too.

kthejoker2 4y ago

> The Montana Republican Party has ... a state representative named John Fuller, who published an opinion column in The Flathead Beacon earlier that year declaring that democracy had “failed as miserably as socialism." > Keith Regier, an influential state senator, said all laws should be based on Judeo-Christian principles. “The Ten Commandments were a good foundation for any country to live by,” he told me .. I told him that I’d heard other Montanans voice feelings of persecution because of the imposition of Christian doctrine. Was there a middle ground to be found? “There probably isn’t a middle,” he said. “You can’t have both.” > On the day after the Billings convention in July, couples filed into Grace Bible Church for the morning service. [Montana governor Greg] Gianforte greeted Hughes and a handful of the other parishioners before sitting down next to his wife and near two notable visitors: the Nebraska governor Pete Ricketts and Trump’s former press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, who were in Montana for a gathering of the Republican Governors Association. > Hughes yielded the stage to a visiting pastor named Brad Bigney, who dedicated much of the sermon to reassuring parishioners that, though they might feel uncertain, they had to believe that God was in control of their destinies. “We seem like a remnant,” Bigney said. “We seem weak. We seem like we don’t have enough resources. We seem — Hello, read your Bible! It always looks that way! I hear people saying now, ‘My America, I don’t even feel comfortable in my America.’ I get it. But this isn’t our final home,” he continued. “He’s testing us, you guys, and I’m sad to say we’ve got some believers that are failing the test. It looks like they never truly trusted in God and that’s being exposed now." > " They trusted in their country.” Nope, definitely not espousing anti-democratic, totalitarian ideas. Definitely not wanting to infringe on other's rights to ... well, what is their goal exactly? > If you want to live here,” Karla Johnson, a chapter president of the Montana Federation of Republican Women, said, “be a Christian.” Oh, cool then. ( https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/11/magazine/montana-republicans-christian-nationalism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/11/magazine/montana-republic... )

jimmygrapes 4y ago
I really don't think NY Times is interested in describing this particular gathering in anything but an intentionally negative light, yet even with that presumed bias I see only one statement there that seems even slightly offensive ("be a Christian") and it is presented in such a way that context not mentioned may or may not reduce the weirdness of it. Only somebody already dedicated to hatred of people espousing these beliefs would find those quoted bits to be "anti-democratic, totalitarian ideas". Take a step back, do some mad-libs and replace nouns with ones you'd prefer. It's a good exercise to see if maybe you're overreacting irrationally.