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Yes, I don't think replacing SMS with a private company/single organisation as the messaging platform provider is the solution (which is why I also count out Wh

Yes, I don't think replacing SMS with a private company/single organisation as the messaging platform provider is the solution (which is why I also count out WhatsApp also, despite currently relying on it heavily to communicate with Android users). I think in the end we need a cross-platform messaging protocol that replaces SMS/MMS that is not reliant on a single app vendor, provides end-to-end encryption and will be supported by mobile network providers. I can see why Google/Android's pushing for iMessage to be an open standard (they have a page dedicated to this that looks like it's written by a war propaganda writer: https://www.android.com/get-the-message/ https://www.android.com/get-the-message/). It would be nice, but it's also good marketing for iPhones so I fail so see why Apple will play ball unless the likes of the EU implement legislation to make it happen. Note: I'm not sure the assumption that only the US is dependent on SMS is accurate (I think that it's a standard that works globally and is currently relied on by majority of countries AFAIK).

nerdjon 4y ago
TBH I don't know the last part either. I just see it being said time and time again that I have started to assume it is true. But I do find the idea weird that they would jump through the hoops for it unless there is a major reason for it. Like we (US) had unlimited SMS a while ago that I think also helped.
vlunkr 4y ago
I wonder what would have to happen for iMessage to get adopted as a standard, or a similar standard to replace it. It's such a great technology, it's a tragedy that Apple has an iron grip on it.
nikeee 4y ago
I understand the desire to just use the default app. I feel the same for most of the stuff I use. However, being based on standards is more like being based on the lowest common denominator. Moxie describes the issue pretty good in his post where he explains why signal is not federated (any more): https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/ https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/ When talking about things like encryption, RCS isn't that much better, it seems. Correct me if I'm wrong, but encryption is optional for the implementors. That doesn't seem to make it secure by default. And it's also not Google trying to push to open standards. In the past, Google made multiple attempts to get their own iMessage and did not succeed: https://www.androidauthority.com/rcs-google-3090142/ https://www.androidauthority.com/rcs-google-3090142/ It feels like the campaign for RCS ist judt a PR campaign against apple. Don't get me wrong, I think SMS is dated and I think it needs a replacement with something more modern and open that is not owned by a private company.
- jvolkman 4y ago
  I think the only serious RCS client at this point is Google Messages, which defaults to E2EE when possible (i.e., both clients are Google Messages). All of the major US carriers have started shipping Google Messages by default. There are other clients like Samsung Messages and whatever crap carriers have tried to implement themselves, but It seems like they'll phase out.
  - schvenk 4y ago
    As far as I can tell, Google Messages defaults to E2EE when possible when RCS is enabled, but RCS is disabled by default. Which basically means 80% of users don't have it turned on.
    - jvolkman 4y ago
      That's true. My reply was in the context of RCS being enabled, I guess. Although I do think Google Messages will prompt new users to enable RCS. iMessage also isn't enabled by default as far as I'm aware.
- schvenk 4y ago
  I fully agree the best outcome here would be a cross-platform, E2EE standard supported as the default across a variety of platforms. (Where iMessage would be a great option if Apple would play ball.) I'm just not holding my breath...and in the absence of that the best I could think to do is explain to whoever would listen why they can take action on their own behalf and that of their community.
ephbit 4y ago
> I think in the end we need a cross-platform messaging protocol that replaces SMS/MMS that is not reliant on a single app vendor, provides end-to-end encryption and will be supported by mobile network providers. Except for ".. will be supported by mobile network providers.", doesn't Jabber/XMPP already fulfill all of that? Also, I'm not sure what you mean by support by mobile network providers.

nerdjon 4y ago

TBH I don't know the last part either. I just see it being said time and time again that I have started to assume it is true. But I do find the idea weird that they would jump through the hoops for it unless there is a major reason for it. Like we (US) had unlimited SMS a while ago that I think also helped.

vlunkr 4y ago

I wonder what would have to happen for iMessage to get adopted as a standard, or a similar standard to replace it. It's such a great technology, it's a tragedy that Apple has an iron grip on it.

nikeee 4y ago

I understand the desire to just use the default app. I feel the same for most of the stuff I use. However, being based on standards is more like being based on the lowest common denominator. Moxie describes the issue pretty good in his post where he explains why signal is not federated (any more): https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/ https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/ When talking about things like encryption, RCS isn't that much better, it seems. Correct me if I'm wrong, but encryption is optional for the implementors. That doesn't seem to make it secure by default. And it's also not Google trying to push to open standards. In the past, Google made multiple attempts to get their own iMessage and did not succeed: https://www.androidauthority.com/rcs-google-3090142/ https://www.androidauthority.com/rcs-google-3090142/ It feels like the campaign for RCS ist judt a PR campaign against apple. Don't get me wrong, I think SMS is dated and I think it needs a replacement with something more modern and open that is not owned by a private company.

jvolkman 4y ago
I think the only serious RCS client at this point is Google Messages, which defaults to E2EE when possible (i.e., both clients are Google Messages). All of the major US carriers have started shipping Google Messages by default. There are other clients like Samsung Messages and whatever crap carriers have tried to implement themselves, but It seems like they'll phase out.
- schvenk 4y ago
  As far as I can tell, Google Messages defaults to E2EE when possible when RCS is enabled, but RCS is disabled by default. Which basically means 80% of users don't have it turned on.
  - jvolkman 4y ago
    That's true. My reply was in the context of RCS being enabled, I guess. Although I do think Google Messages will prompt new users to enable RCS. iMessage also isn't enabled by default as far as I'm aware.
schvenk 4y ago
I fully agree the best outcome here would be a cross-platform, E2EE standard supported as the default across a variety of platforms. (Where iMessage would be a great option if Apple would play ball.) I'm just not holding my breath...and in the absence of that the best I could think to do is explain to whoever would listen why they can take action on their own behalf and that of their community.

ephbit 4y ago

> I think in the end we need a cross-platform messaging protocol that replaces SMS/MMS that is not reliant on a single app vendor, provides end-to-end encryption and will be supported by mobile network providers. Except for ".. will be supported by mobile network providers.", doesn't Jabber/XMPP already fulfill all of that? Also, I'm not sure what you mean by support by mobile network providers.