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There's one gigantic advantage to SMS that no alternative app has come close to matching: your phone number is yours, so even if Verizon decides to drop you as

There's one gigantic advantage to SMS that no alternative app has come close to matching: your phone number is yours, so even if Verizon decides to drop you as a customer, you can move to one of their competitors and still be able to receive messages from everyone you could before. If you use WhatsApp and Meta decides to ban you, you're out of luck unless you gave a second means of communication to everyone you used to talk to on it. The only other means of communication that comes close is email with your own domain, which in theory offers the same benefit but in practice is a ton of work and will often result in your messages ending up in spam folders.

Groxx 4y ago
> your phone number is yours Unless you move out of their service area. Or a number of other caveats. Then they're not required to allow you to port your number, and telecoms rarely do anything user-friendly-but-internally-costly that they're not legally required to do.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- wigster 4y ago
  in the UK, mobile companies have to allow you to port it.
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  > Then they're not required to allow you to port your number, and telecoms rarely do anything user-friendly-but-internally-costly that they're not legally required to do. They're not required to do it, and they rarely let you do anything that isn't legally required? Something doesn't add up here, because telecoms letting you port your mobile number to another provider is the status quo. I can't remember the last I heard somebody complain that they weren't able to port their number when changing providers. I've done it four times myself, and each time it was painless.
  - tzs 4y ago
    When he said "unless you move out of their service area" he should have said "unless you move to a different geographic area". Here is a summary of the rules [1] in the US. Key points from that page: • If you're switching service providers and remaining in the same geographic area, you can keep your existing phone number. This process – often referred to as phone number porting – can be done between wireline, IP and wireless providers. • If you are moving to a new geographic area, you may not be able to keep your current phone number when changing providers. • Also, some rural wireline service providers may obtain waivers for the porting requirement from state authorities. Their customers may be unable to port their number to a new provider. If you are unable to port your number for that reason, contact your state public utilities commission for further information. [1] https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-phone-number-when-you-change-providers https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-ph...
    - Groxx 4y ago
      Where "geographic area" can mean "moved a block, no longer technically in the same municipal area", yes. I'll give you one guess why I know this. Yes, most cases port just fine. I've ported multiple times successfully too. But no, your number is not "yours". It's the telecom's, and they decide if you can keep it or not... and they have a history of choosing so poorly that they are now legally required to make a better choice most of the time. It really does not imply good things about trust in their future behavior.
- sp332 4y ago
  In the USA, they are required to port your number. Since 2003 IIRC.
digitallyfree 4y ago
Meta, Google, etc. also sometimes randomly ban accounts for reasons unknown (AI detecting "suspicious" behavior, etc.), whereas I have never heard of phone companies doing this.
- sowbug 4y ago
  Follow the money. What an attention-funded company calls "suspicious" behavior is what the phone company calls "revenue-generating" behavior. That's why my carrier seems to be utterly unable to stop spam callers (who generate revenue for them), whereas it's been nearly 20 years since I've had an email spam problem, thanks to Gmail and the businesses that pay Google to support it.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  It's not nearly as common with phone companies as it is with the FAANGs, but it's definitely not unheard of either, e.g., https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/13j1p9/att_has_permanently_banned_me_for_something_they/ https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/13j1p9/att_has...
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    The owner of Kiwi farms also had his personal phone number terminated despite presumably not engaging in any illegal behaviour on it. I don’t believe you can do a number transfer when you get banned either.
valarauko 4y ago
> if you use WhatsApp and Meta decides to ban you Genuine Q: is this something that ever happens?
- josephcsible 4y ago
  Yes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9309038 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9309038 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14415265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14415265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24776748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24776748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25475751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25475751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25881112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25881112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25884019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25884019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31577325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31577325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33015769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33015769
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    One more very relevant one that I missed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31707349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31707349
  - valarauko 4y ago
    Skimming through the links I see only one or two instances of a WhatsApp account being banned. I ask because while I come across talk of FB accounts being suspended/banned, I couldn't recall any WA bans other than perhaps egregious warranted examples.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      Why isn't a single example of an unjust ban that they refuse to overturn when it trends publicly good enough?
      - valarauko 4y ago
        Not saying anything of the sort. My initial question was centered on the idea of WA accounts being banned, something at least I did not recall encountering, while I did come across talk of FB accounts being banned, hence my query. I'm not making a judgement call on way or the other, whether they were just or not. Looks like WA accounts do get banned, just nowhere as frequently as FB accounts.

Groxx 4y ago

> your phone number is yours Unless you move out of their service area. Or a number of other caveats. Then they're not required to allow you to port your number, and telecoms rarely do anything user-friendly-but-internally-costly that they're not legally required to do.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
wigster 4y ago
in the UK, mobile companies have to allow you to port it.
LarryMullins 4y ago
> Then they're not required to allow you to port your number, and telecoms rarely do anything user-friendly-but-internally-costly that they're not legally required to do. They're not required to do it, and they rarely let you do anything that isn't legally required? Something doesn't add up here, because telecoms letting you port your mobile number to another provider is the status quo. I can't remember the last I heard somebody complain that they weren't able to port their number when changing providers. I've done it four times myself, and each time it was painless.
- tzs 4y ago
  When he said "unless you move out of their service area" he should have said "unless you move to a different geographic area". Here is a summary of the rules [1] in the US. Key points from that page: • If you're switching service providers and remaining in the same geographic area, you can keep your existing phone number. This process – often referred to as phone number porting – can be done between wireline, IP and wireless providers. • If you are moving to a new geographic area, you may not be able to keep your current phone number when changing providers. • Also, some rural wireline service providers may obtain waivers for the porting requirement from state authorities. Their customers may be unable to port their number to a new provider. If you are unable to port your number for that reason, contact your state public utilities commission for further information. [1] https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-phone-number-when-you-change-providers https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-ph...
  - Groxx 4y ago
    Where "geographic area" can mean "moved a block, no longer technically in the same municipal area", yes. I'll give you one guess why I know this. Yes, most cases port just fine. I've ported multiple times successfully too. But no, your number is not "yours". It's the telecom's, and they decide if you can keep it or not... and they have a history of choosing so poorly that they are now legally required to make a better choice most of the time. It really does not imply good things about trust in their future behavior.
sp332 4y ago
In the USA, they are required to port your number. Since 2003 IIRC.

digitallyfree 4y ago

Meta, Google, etc. also sometimes randomly ban accounts for reasons unknown (AI detecting "suspicious" behavior, etc.), whereas I have never heard of phone companies doing this.

sowbug 4y ago
Follow the money. What an attention-funded company calls "suspicious" behavior is what the phone company calls "revenue-generating" behavior. That's why my carrier seems to be utterly unable to stop spam callers (who generate revenue for them), whereas it's been nearly 20 years since I've had an email spam problem, thanks to Gmail and the businesses that pay Google to support it.
josephcsible 4y ago
It's not nearly as common with phone companies as it is with the FAANGs, but it's definitely not unheard of either, e.g., https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/13j1p9/att_has_permanently_banned_me_for_something_they/ https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/13j1p9/att_has...
- Gigachad 4y ago
  The owner of Kiwi farms also had his personal phone number terminated despite presumably not engaging in any illegal behaviour on it. I don’t believe you can do a number transfer when you get banned either.

valarauko 4y ago

> if you use WhatsApp and Meta decides to ban you Genuine Q: is this something that ever happens?

josephcsible 4y ago
Yes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9309038 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9309038 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14415265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14415265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24776748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24776748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25475751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25475751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25881112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25881112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25884019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25884019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31577325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31577325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33015769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33015769
- josephcsible 4y ago
  One more very relevant one that I missed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31707349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31707349
- valarauko 4y ago
  Skimming through the links I see only one or two instances of a WhatsApp account being banned. I ask because while I come across talk of FB accounts being suspended/banned, I couldn't recall any WA bans other than perhaps egregious warranted examples.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    Why isn't a single example of an unjust ban that they refuse to overturn when it trends publicly good enough?
    - valarauko 4y ago
      Not saying anything of the sort. My initial question was centered on the idea of WA accounts being banned, something at least I did not recall encountering, while I did come across talk of FB accounts being banned, hence my query. I'm not making a judgement call on way or the other, whether they were just or not. Looks like WA accounts do get banned, just nowhere as frequently as FB accounts.