4 ms·

I love your optimism, and would absolutely love to have this capability in a garage. But as someone who designs physical products (and deals with all of the man

I love your optimism, and would absolutely love to have this capability in a garage. But as someone who designs physical products (and deals with all of the manufacturing techniques you mentioned above on a regular basis) I can't say I agree. There's a huge amount of knowledge and skill required to make machined/cast/extruded metal components, and a very steep learning curve before someone can do so safely. Gamechanger? Yes. But likely mostly for the ambulance industry.

dragontamer 4y ago
I've often considered a CNC Mill though. A huge variety of plastics are readily available from McMaster-Carr of varying machining qualities (Acrylics are best for Laser cutters, but you can get extruded Nylon, Cast Nylon, extruded ABS, etc. etc.). There's also a wide variety of cheap woods available. This guide focuses on Urethane Casting, which is yet another set of plastics you can work with. ----------- I've worked with all of these plastic technologies and materials, not necessarily in my lab but in various Makerspaces. Its all easy enough, and "safe enough" to work with. Obviously, even woodworking equipment can chop off your limbs. So you should go in with a degree of woodworking training and/or study. But there's plenty of woodworking classes available at community colleges everywhere. Take one of those and you _should_ be set for wood/plastic level cutting tools (like a CNC Mill). ------ Taking the next step into metalworking... ugggh. I know people who take that step, but it is another level of safety / study above and beyond wood/plastics. I'm happy with my woodworking level of knowledge (and its incredibly practical, especially if you're a homeowner).
prova_modena 4y ago
Agreed. I've seen a lot of people coming from 3D printing become interested in CNC and assume the complexity, risk and investment are similar. They hit a wall pretty quickly when they realize all these things are much higher when machining metal. There are a lot of hobby mill companies willing to perpetuate this assumption by selling cheap benchtop mills. But to do produce anything with "industrial" precision, strength and surface finish at a decent rate, the physical size of the equipment alone is more than what most garage shops are willing to accommodate.
bsder 4y ago
> Gamechanger? Yes. But likely mostly for the ambulance industry. While I laughed, I don't find this to be very true at all for working in metal. Working on metal seems to have WAY fewer injuries than people who work on wood. Metal working is almost always in a vise and your hands are on levers/cranks--away from the cutting surface. Whereas, with woodworking, your hands are almost always the motive force and directly next to the cutting envelope. Simply take a look at the hands of long time machinists vs long time woodworkers. The woodworkers are the ones missing some finger bits.
- michaelt 4y ago
  I don't know, I'd have thought the angle grinder - signature tool of the metalworker - is probably one of the most dangerous tools you'll find in the average DIYer's garage.
  - jalk 4y ago
    I imagine a circular saw with 1 inch teeth will do far more damage to human flesh than a grinding disc
    - krschultz 4y ago
      The grinding discs shatter. Wear a full face shield.
      - toss1 4y ago
        Yup. I've seen several stories about such incidents, one of the good things about the internet is the ability to spread info on these things. Safety specs saved this guy's eye from an exploding angle grinder disc. https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/4npyfu/safety_specs_saved_this_guys_eye_from_an/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/4npyfu/safety_specs_s...
  - UncleEntity 4y ago
    Pretty much everyone I watch on YouTube calls them some permutation of “the wheel of death”.
gaze 4y ago
The problem is that once you start adding up the cost of the components to make a capable CNC mill, you get really close to the price of existing ones. Ball screws, good linear rails, etc. are no joke. Big heavy castings (cast iron or polymer concrete) are no joke. The most "disruptive" maker-style machine is the Tormach and it's not well liked.
- naasking 4y ago
  Lots of open source designs that can route steel, like PrintNC [1] and OpenBuilds [2]. If all you need is Aluminium, then you can make do with something like the RS-CNC32 [3] or MultiBot [4]. [1] https://wiki.printnc.info/en/about https://wiki.printnc.info/en/about [2] https://openbuilds.com/builds/category-list https://openbuilds.com/builds/category-list [3] https://www.makerfr.com/en/cnc/rs-cnc32/ https://www.makerfr.com/en/cnc/rs-cnc32/ [4] https://hackaday.io/project/176110-multibot-cnc-v2 https://hackaday.io/project/176110-multibot-cnc-v2
  - gaze 4y ago
    They don’t hold great tolerances, but if that’s ok then they’re fine.
    - naasking 4y ago
      What do you consider a great tolerance?
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        Not parent, but I’d consider 0.001” over 10” to be totally acceptable for home and hobby use and 0.00025” over 20” to be acceptable for general production use (“great” isn’t really meaningful, but “makes parts to spec” is good enough).
        gaze 4y ago
        That's the specification of a measuring instrument. Commercial VMCs don't hold 0.00025” over 20" even without being loaded. A slight temperature change will throw that off.
buildsjets 4y ago
I cast aluminum in my backyard frequently. My forge is made from 2 one gallon paint cans, some charcoal, and a hairdryer. It cost me less than ten dollars to build. It's only as complicated as you decide to make it.

dragontamer 4y ago

I've often considered a CNC Mill though. A huge variety of plastics are readily available from McMaster-Carr of varying machining qualities (Acrylics are best for Laser cutters, but you can get extruded Nylon, Cast Nylon, extruded ABS, etc. etc.). There's also a wide variety of cheap woods available. This guide focuses on Urethane Casting, which is yet another set of plastics you can work with. ----------- I've worked with all of these plastic technologies and materials, not necessarily in my lab but in various Makerspaces. Its all easy enough, and "safe enough" to work with. Obviously, even woodworking equipment can chop off your limbs. So you should go in with a degree of woodworking training and/or study. But there's plenty of woodworking classes available at community colleges everywhere. Take one of those and you _should_ be set for wood/plastic level cutting tools (like a CNC Mill). ------ Taking the next step into metalworking... ugggh. I know people who take that step, but it is another level of safety / study above and beyond wood/plastics. I'm happy with my woodworking level of knowledge (and its incredibly practical, especially if you're a homeowner).

prova_modena 4y ago

Agreed. I've seen a lot of people coming from 3D printing become interested in CNC and assume the complexity, risk and investment are similar. They hit a wall pretty quickly when they realize all these things are much higher when machining metal. There are a lot of hobby mill companies willing to perpetuate this assumption by selling cheap benchtop mills. But to do produce anything with "industrial" precision, strength and surface finish at a decent rate, the physical size of the equipment alone is more than what most garage shops are willing to accommodate.

bsder 4y ago

> Gamechanger? Yes. But likely mostly for the ambulance industry. While I laughed, I don't find this to be very true at all for working in metal. Working on metal seems to have WAY fewer injuries than people who work on wood. Metal working is almost always in a vise and your hands are on levers/cranks--away from the cutting surface. Whereas, with woodworking, your hands are almost always the motive force and directly next to the cutting envelope. Simply take a look at the hands of long time machinists vs long time woodworkers. The woodworkers are the ones missing some finger bits.

michaelt 4y ago
I don't know, I'd have thought the angle grinder - signature tool of the metalworker - is probably one of the most dangerous tools you'll find in the average DIYer's garage.
- jalk 4y ago
  I imagine a circular saw with 1 inch teeth will do far more damage to human flesh than a grinding disc
  - krschultz 4y ago
    The grinding discs shatter. Wear a full face shield.
    - toss1 4y ago
      Yup. I've seen several stories about such incidents, one of the good things about the internet is the ability to spread info on these things. Safety specs saved this guy's eye from an exploding angle grinder disc. https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/4npyfu/safety_specs_saved_this_guys_eye_from_an/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/4npyfu/safety_specs_s...
- UncleEntity 4y ago
  Pretty much everyone I watch on YouTube calls them some permutation of “the wheel of death”.

gaze 4y ago

The problem is that once you start adding up the cost of the components to make a capable CNC mill, you get really close to the price of existing ones. Ball screws, good linear rails, etc. are no joke. Big heavy castings (cast iron or polymer concrete) are no joke. The most "disruptive" maker-style machine is the Tormach and it's not well liked.

naasking 4y ago
Lots of open source designs that can route steel, like PrintNC [1] and OpenBuilds [2]. If all you need is Aluminium, then you can make do with something like the RS-CNC32 [3] or MultiBot [4]. [1] https://wiki.printnc.info/en/about https://wiki.printnc.info/en/about [2] https://openbuilds.com/builds/category-list https://openbuilds.com/builds/category-list [3] https://www.makerfr.com/en/cnc/rs-cnc32/ https://www.makerfr.com/en/cnc/rs-cnc32/ [4] https://hackaday.io/project/176110-multibot-cnc-v2 https://hackaday.io/project/176110-multibot-cnc-v2
- gaze 4y ago
  They don’t hold great tolerances, but if that’s ok then they’re fine.
  - naasking 4y ago
    What do you consider a great tolerance?
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      Not parent, but I’d consider 0.001” over 10” to be totally acceptable for home and hobby use and 0.00025” over 20” to be acceptable for general production use (“great” isn’t really meaningful, but “makes parts to spec” is good enough).
      - gaze 4y ago
        That's the specification of a measuring instrument. Commercial VMCs don't hold 0.00025” over 20" even without being loaded. A slight temperature change will throw that off.

buildsjets 4y ago

I cast aluminum in my backyard frequently. My forge is made from 2 one gallon paint cans, some charcoal, and a hairdryer. It cost me less than ten dollars to build. It's only as complicated as you decide to make it.