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EV or not EV, I really think you want 200A service? It has been the standard for quite a few years, and I cannot imagine only having 100A service in a proper h

EV or not EV, I really think you want 200A service? It has been the standard for quite a few years, and I cannot imagine only having 100A service in a proper house (would be fine for an apartment or whatnot). Now I am higher electric usage than most, but I hit over 100A several times a day (but have never hit 200A and flipped my breaker). The actually switching out your circuit breaker from 100A to 200A is cheap (2-3k?). Almost all of the cost is for the utility to run you a bigger line, and they can pretty much charge you anything they want (what is your alternative if you don't like the price?)

zbrozek 4y ago
Electrical code has completely unreasonable and unrealistic demand factors associated with appliances. Basically "1" for just about everything, as well as 3 watts per square foot of floor area. If you sum all of these things up, I'm well above the 200 amp service delivered to my home. Reality? I had a peak draw of 23 amps from the grid in the last year. Luckily the NEC has an escape valve for folks who can prove that.
- brianwawok 4y ago
  Right, don't go off code for having to do a big upgrade like this. I legit hit 100A several times a month. Have hit over 150A. Easy way for me to draw 100A at once: 40A: EV charging 32A: Electric Oven warming up at max 24A: Electric Dryer 40A: HotTub jets on 40A: AC ON Max Unlikely all of those are on full max, but it's pretty easy to imagine getting past 100A before we even touch things like lights and computers. EV + Dryer + Hot Tub pretty much pull max for the entire run, the other stuff is more likely to cycle up and down.
  - eppp 4y ago
    And if you only have a 200A service, your service drop is likely only 2 or 1/0.
    - brianwawok 4y ago
      Most 200A services around me are 4/0 Aluminum 2/0 copper would work but would cost more, so likely not used.
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    Do Americans quote large appliance current at 220V or 110V equivalent? From the EV it seems the former, but in that case I'm horrified at how power-hungry your appliances are. A typical new oven sold in Europe is 3.6kW, 16A @ 230V. A new tumble drier is 600W, so about 2.5A at 230V. There's such a range of hot tub and AC sizes I can't compare these.
    - frosted-flakes 4y ago
      240V circuits are simply both legs of the 120V split phase connected together, so the amperage is measured at 120V. The circuit breakers for 120V and 240V circuits are the same, except 240V circuits use two breakers with the handles tied together[1]. Electric resistive heaters like ovens and clothes dryers are always perfectly efficient, so I'm not sure how you even thought it would be possible to have an inefficient heater. [1]: The 120V rails in the middle of the breaker panel alternate between each split phase, so if you connect a circuit to any two adjacent breakers you will get 240V. A 120V circuit is connected to neutral and a single breaker.
      - mcbishop 4y ago
        > I'm not sure how you even thought it would be possible to have an inefficient heater They're inefficient relative to a 250-500% efficient heat pump.
      - Symbiote 4y ago
        As well as using a heat pump, a more efficient dryer can be better-insulated, or make better use of the heat produced in drying clothes, however that might be done.
    - brianwawok 4y ago
      Almost all big appliances are 220. Fridges are 110, but the big guys * EV Charging * Electric or Induction Oven * Electric Dryer * AC * Electric Water Heater are all doing to be 220. The amps will vary, and most will not peg the required wire 100%, but may for example do a big pulse to startup (ACs are famous for this).
  - itsoktocry 4y ago
    Saving the world driving an EV, while running the AC, oven and hot tub simultaneously, full blast.
    - brianwawok 4y ago
      AC and Hot Tub full blast would almost never happen, Hot Tub is more a winter thing. But A full EV charge can be 6-7 hours, so could easily be all evening. A hot tub could easily be an hour of overlap in there. So someone turns on the Oven? Would def pop 100.
hinkley 4y ago
I think my house has 2x200A. It was zoned multi family but the previous owners had a separate service for an electric car, and there’s still bits of electronics in the attic from where they tried to do crypto mining. I’m sure their equipment overheated. The roof is not insulated and the attic fan is pushing against a louver that’s the wrong design. It gets hot up there without any equipment.
- brianwawok 4y ago
  Yah in most cases 2x200 is the step up from 200. The reason being is your wire that runs your 200A service isn't big enough to carry 400A, so you would need to tear it out. Why tear it out a perfectly good wire when you can just run another? My house is a really big house built in the 50s. It was initially 2x100A service as I don't think 200A service at home was really a thing. It had 2 meters and everything. Sometime in the 80s they tore out the feed from the pole and put in a proper single 200A line, and just left the second meter as defunct.
carcostthrow 4y ago
>It has been the standard for quite a few years, and I cannot imagine only having 100A service in a proper house 100A service is fairly normal here for smaller homes. As heating here is primarily done by natural gas furnaces rather then electrical heating. Which make sense; gas is way cheaper to heat with here then electricity. And it saves a dollar for the developer. I don't know about larger homes though; I'd imagine that they'd have 200A circuits but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't unless the builder specifically requested it.
- brianwawok 4y ago
  I cannot find any new homes with smaller than 150. What I have seen is: Smaller House: Default 150, pay a little more to get 200 Bigger House: Default 200, pay a little more to get 2x200
  - carcostthrow 4y ago
    I'm in Canada in the prairies, so that might be making a difference. Where are you looking at?
    - brianwawok 4y ago
      US Midwest
- kennend3 4y ago
  I live in a large home (~5,600 square feet) in the "Greater Toronto area" built in 2000. I have a 100A service. This has never been a problem for us. Stove, furnace, and dryer are gas. So the only "power hungry" device we have is our Air Conditioner.

zbrozek 4y ago

Electrical code has completely unreasonable and unrealistic demand factors associated with appliances. Basically "1" for just about everything, as well as 3 watts per square foot of floor area. If you sum all of these things up, I'm well above the 200 amp service delivered to my home. Reality? I had a peak draw of 23 amps from the grid in the last year. Luckily the NEC has an escape valve for folks who can prove that.

brianwawok 4y ago
Right, don't go off code for having to do a big upgrade like this. I legit hit 100A several times a month. Have hit over 150A. Easy way for me to draw 100A at once: 40A: EV charging 32A: Electric Oven warming up at max 24A: Electric Dryer 40A: HotTub jets on 40A: AC ON Max Unlikely all of those are on full max, but it's pretty easy to imagine getting past 100A before we even touch things like lights and computers. EV + Dryer + Hot Tub pretty much pull max for the entire run, the other stuff is more likely to cycle up and down.
- eppp 4y ago
  And if you only have a 200A service, your service drop is likely only 2 or 1/0.
  - brianwawok 4y ago
    Most 200A services around me are 4/0 Aluminum 2/0 copper would work but would cost more, so likely not used.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  Do Americans quote large appliance current at 220V or 110V equivalent? From the EV it seems the former, but in that case I'm horrified at how power-hungry your appliances are. A typical new oven sold in Europe is 3.6kW, 16A @ 230V. A new tumble drier is 600W, so about 2.5A at 230V. There's such a range of hot tub and AC sizes I can't compare these.
  - frosted-flakes 4y ago
    240V circuits are simply both legs of the 120V split phase connected together, so the amperage is measured at 120V. The circuit breakers for 120V and 240V circuits are the same, except 240V circuits use two breakers with the handles tied together[1]. Electric resistive heaters like ovens and clothes dryers are always perfectly efficient, so I'm not sure how you even thought it would be possible to have an inefficient heater. [1]: The 120V rails in the middle of the breaker panel alternate between each split phase, so if you connect a circuit to any two adjacent breakers you will get 240V. A 120V circuit is connected to neutral and a single breaker.
    - mcbishop 4y ago
      > I'm not sure how you even thought it would be possible to have an inefficient heater They're inefficient relative to a 250-500% efficient heat pump.
    - Symbiote 4y ago
      As well as using a heat pump, a more efficient dryer can be better-insulated, or make better use of the heat produced in drying clothes, however that might be done.
  - brianwawok 4y ago
    Almost all big appliances are 220. Fridges are 110, but the big guys * EV Charging * Electric or Induction Oven * Electric Dryer * AC * Electric Water Heater are all doing to be 220. The amps will vary, and most will not peg the required wire 100%, but may for example do a big pulse to startup (ACs are famous for this).
- itsoktocry 4y ago
  Saving the world driving an EV, while running the AC, oven and hot tub simultaneously, full blast.
  - brianwawok 4y ago
    AC and Hot Tub full blast would almost never happen, Hot Tub is more a winter thing. But A full EV charge can be 6-7 hours, so could easily be all evening. A hot tub could easily be an hour of overlap in there. So someone turns on the Oven? Would def pop 100.

hinkley 4y ago

I think my house has 2x200A. It was zoned multi family but the previous owners had a separate service for an electric car, and there’s still bits of electronics in the attic from where they tried to do crypto mining. I’m sure their equipment overheated. The roof is not insulated and the attic fan is pushing against a louver that’s the wrong design. It gets hot up there without any equipment.

brianwawok 4y ago
Yah in most cases 2x200 is the step up from 200. The reason being is your wire that runs your 200A service isn't big enough to carry 400A, so you would need to tear it out. Why tear it out a perfectly good wire when you can just run another? My house is a really big house built in the 50s. It was initially 2x100A service as I don't think 200A service at home was really a thing. It had 2 meters and everything. Sometime in the 80s they tore out the feed from the pole and put in a proper single 200A line, and just left the second meter as defunct.

carcostthrow 4y ago

>It has been the standard for quite a few years, and I cannot imagine only having 100A service in a proper house 100A service is fairly normal here for smaller homes. As heating here is primarily done by natural gas furnaces rather then electrical heating. Which make sense; gas is way cheaper to heat with here then electricity. And it saves a dollar for the developer. I don't know about larger homes though; I'd imagine that they'd have 200A circuits but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't unless the builder specifically requested it.

brianwawok 4y ago
I cannot find any new homes with smaller than 150. What I have seen is: Smaller House: Default 150, pay a little more to get 200 Bigger House: Default 200, pay a little more to get 2x200
- carcostthrow 4y ago
  I'm in Canada in the prairies, so that might be making a difference. Where are you looking at?
  - brianwawok 4y ago
    US Midwest
kennend3 4y ago
I live in a large home (~5,600 square feet) in the "Greater Toronto area" built in 2000. I have a 100A service. This has never been a problem for us. Stove, furnace, and dryer are gas. So the only "power hungry" device we have is our Air Conditioner.