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As I mentioned in a different comment, gender might be necessary for the feature of displaying content that addresses you, since some languages have gender bake

As I mentioned in a different comment, gender might be necessary for the feature of displaying content that addresses you, since some languages have gender baked in, there is no genderless 'you' form like in English. Now sexual orientation, that's a head scratcher.

jeroenhd 4y ago
This is definitely a valid use case for gender. However, in most applications and services, this is not used like that. The gender mapping seems to be used exclusively to determine whether the marketing emails should start with "mr." or "mrs.".
- fknorangesite 4y ago
  > The gender mapping seems to be used exclusively to determine whether the marketing emails should start with "mr." or "mrs.". Anything vaguely social is going to have instances where you want to refer to a user in the third person. Of course, an easy solution to this is not to ask for gender per se, but for what pronouns to use. Even a dropdown with "he/she/they" options is going to cover basically everyone. If you need something more complicated than that, so be it, but probably YAGNI.
- xigoi 4y ago
  What if the client switches their display language to one where the gender matters?
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    Show a prompt, in their native language, asking for their preferred grammatical gender? Die deutsche Sprache hat Geschlechter, welches Geschlecht passt am besten zu dir? Maskulin, Feminin, Neutrum oder zurück zum Englischen wechseln?
    - xigoi 4y ago
      Seems quite complex compared to just asking everyone for gender.
      - danShumway 4y ago
        How so? Isn't it generally considered good UX design in most software not to front-load customization options before they're relevant to the user? I want to think we've grown out of the early design era of launching an image editor and getting asked on first run what format I want to use for exporting images. Ask me that question when I hit the export button. Similarly, ask me questions about grammar when it's relevant to the software, don't ask me questions up front that might never be relevant to my use of the software. As an analogy, imagine if you started using Bandcamp and it asked you up-front for tax information just in case you ever decided to publish an album in the future. If the user hasn't ever switched to a language that requires knowing what gender variants they use, then that question is just one additional tiny piece of signup friction sitting in front of your service that you could get rid of for the majority of your users.
mindover 4y ago
My understanding is that asking the sexual orientation question is illegal at least in some states. Personally never been asked that by any employer in CA.
- geraldwhen 4y ago
  Not only is it legal in California, but there are quotas. Any public company board based in California must meet certain diversity quotas. https://www.sos.ca.gov/business-programs/diversity-boards https://www.sos.ca.gov/business-programs/diversity-boards The simplest way to game this is to claim to be a bisexual. This is even easier if you’re already married, since no one will expect you to prove it.
  - mindover 4y ago
    Interesting, looks like some sexual orientations fall into the “underrepresented community” definition. I wonder how the gauge this type of diversity. Would it be “sufficient” if half of the board are bisexual white men?
    - Izkata 4y ago
      > Would it be “sufficient” if half of the board are bisexual white men? The ranking is referred to as the "progressive stack". Arguing over which groups go where is called the "oppression olympics".

jeroenhd 4y ago

This is definitely a valid use case for gender. However, in most applications and services, this is not used like that. The gender mapping seems to be used exclusively to determine whether the marketing emails should start with "mr." or "mrs.".

fknorangesite 4y ago
> The gender mapping seems to be used exclusively to determine whether the marketing emails should start with "mr." or "mrs.". Anything vaguely social is going to have instances where you want to refer to a user in the third person. Of course, an easy solution to this is not to ask for gender per se, but for what pronouns to use. Even a dropdown with "he/she/they" options is going to cover basically everyone. If you need something more complicated than that, so be it, but probably YAGNI.
xigoi 4y ago
What if the client switches their display language to one where the gender matters?
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  Show a prompt, in their native language, asking for their preferred grammatical gender? Die deutsche Sprache hat Geschlechter, welches Geschlecht passt am besten zu dir? Maskulin, Feminin, Neutrum oder zurück zum Englischen wechseln?
  - xigoi 4y ago
    Seems quite complex compared to just asking everyone for gender.
    - danShumway 4y ago
      How so? Isn't it generally considered good UX design in most software not to front-load customization options before they're relevant to the user? I want to think we've grown out of the early design era of launching an image editor and getting asked on first run what format I want to use for exporting images. Ask me that question when I hit the export button. Similarly, ask me questions about grammar when it's relevant to the software, don't ask me questions up front that might never be relevant to my use of the software. As an analogy, imagine if you started using Bandcamp and it asked you up-front for tax information just in case you ever decided to publish an album in the future. If the user hasn't ever switched to a language that requires knowing what gender variants they use, then that question is just one additional tiny piece of signup friction sitting in front of your service that you could get rid of for the majority of your users.

mindover 4y ago

My understanding is that asking the sexual orientation question is illegal at least in some states. Personally never been asked that by any employer in CA.

geraldwhen 4y ago
Not only is it legal in California, but there are quotas. Any public company board based in California must meet certain diversity quotas. https://www.sos.ca.gov/business-programs/diversity-boards https://www.sos.ca.gov/business-programs/diversity-boards The simplest way to game this is to claim to be a bisexual. This is even easier if you’re already married, since no one will expect you to prove it.
- mindover 4y ago
  Interesting, looks like some sexual orientations fall into the “underrepresented community” definition. I wonder how the gauge this type of diversity. Would it be “sufficient” if half of the board are bisexual white men?
  - Izkata 4y ago
    > Would it be “sufficient” if half of the board are bisexual white men? The ranking is referred to as the "progressive stack". Arguing over which groups go where is called the "oppression olympics".