8 ms·

I wish Microsoft had more Raymond Chens, and less... whoever it is that makes decisions like "let's preinstall candy crush", and "let's break the start menu AGA

I wish Microsoft had more Raymond Chens, and less... whoever it is that makes decisions like "let's preinstall candy crush", and "let's break the start menu AGAIN". There's a real elegant core to windows, it's such a shame that a lot of the higher level stuff piled on top is so crappy.

rayiner 4y ago
NT is a nicely designed OS. I wonder how many people still at Microsoft really even grok it anymore. I hear Apple is having trouble finding enough developers who can do kernel work.
- CoolGuySteve 4y ago
  When I worked on video systems at Apple I got dinged on a performance review for negatively comparing their kernel to Linux too many times. I’m pretty sure they still have a dogshit IO scheduler but I haven’t used a Mac in ages. I suspect it’s not that people can’t do the work and more that Apple’s silos mean their already employed engineers are not allowed to try or even talk about it.
  - AndriyKunitsyn 4y ago
    That's interesting, are there some benchmarks that prove the inferiority of the Mac scheduler? (Without getting you into an NDA trouble, of course.)
    - CoolGuySteve 4y ago
      I don't think it matters as much any more now that we don't have spinning disks with slow seek times. For things like Final Cut/iMovie with lots of video/audio/misc tracks, it was trivial to saturate the disk with dumb seeks when reading otherwise linear data streams due to a lack of knobs.
  - coldpie 4y ago
    > dinged on a performance review for negatively comparing their kernel... engineers are not allowed to try or even talk about it I wonder if it was possibly not that you compared the kernels but rather how you chose to express the comparison. For example this bit makes me think you possibly expressed your opinion combatively: > a dogshit IO scheduler Perhaps you were more polite in your day-to-day, I don't know. But your language here makes me wonder.
    - BeetleB 4y ago
      Just World Fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis
      - coldpie 4y ago
        More like, One Side of the Story :) https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/someones-side-of-the-story https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/some...
        BeetleB 4y ago
        To be fair, all anecdotes are one side of a story :-)
    - CoolGuySteve 4y ago
      You seem to be extrapolating a lot from a single turn of phrase but the fact remains that while Apple's kernel is satisfactory, it's not really considered best of bread in anything other than maybe dtrace support. So I'm sorry I offended you with my salty language but the evidence suggests I'm far from the only one that went ignored at Apple.
      - coldpie 4y ago
        > I'm sorry I offended you You didn't.
      - 4y ago
- keltor 4y ago
  There's lots of them but long long gone are the days when the guy who's working on Network blah blah for Azure is allowed to do anything with Windows. Silos are good except when they become Ivory Towers which is what they have become. Sadly it seems some sort of modern managerial style since it infects almost every corporation these days.
- bitwize 4y ago
  AFAIK Dave Cutler is still there but he's been moved off the Windows team -- first to Xbox of all places and then to cloud, maybe?
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Most well known names that are still around have moved either into Azure or DevDiv (which I think now is under Azure as well). Which is probably the root cause of the GUI civil war happening between all desktop frameworks.
  - deadso 4y ago
    "Been moved" strongly implies that it wasn't his choice. Cutler worked on some really cool Virtualization problems in Xbox and is bringing that expertise to Azure as well.
- jjtheblunt 4y ago
  I had this book when it first came out and it was fantastic, coming from a pretty hard core Unix background. Inside Windows NT from Microsoft Press https://a.co/d/1lxwnQt https://a.co/d/1lxwnQt
cjbgkagh 4y ago
Without that pile so many people would have nothing to do, no impact to list in their reasons for a bonus.
chowells 4y ago
I don't think you understand the position Microsoft is in. First, Candy Crush was never preinstalled. A link to purchase it in the Microsoft store was preinstalled, and it took all of two clicks to get rid of it if you wanted to. Second, preinstalling that link reduced malware infections of windows systems by a visible percentage worldwide. Microsoft has a duty to protect users who need it. Finding a compromise where the worst case for other users is that they need to click twice is pretty good.
- Topgamer7 4y ago
  > Second, preinstalling that link reduced malware infections of windows systems by a visible percentage worldwide. Why? Because people would pirate it? Or Just download virus laden games in general?
  - giaour 4y ago
    If I wanted to set up a botnet, bundling malware in a dumb game and then putting the exe on the internet for free seems like a decent start
- sakras 4y ago
  How did a candy crush link reduce malware infections? Also as an aside, that link _kept coming back_ on my laptop (but not my desktop oddly).
- fomine3 4y ago
  Source? Why don't they also bundle Fortnite and LoL?

rayiner 4y ago

NT is a nicely designed OS. I wonder how many people still at Microsoft really even grok it anymore. I hear Apple is having trouble finding enough developers who can do kernel work.

CoolGuySteve 4y ago
When I worked on video systems at Apple I got dinged on a performance review for negatively comparing their kernel to Linux too many times. I’m pretty sure they still have a dogshit IO scheduler but I haven’t used a Mac in ages. I suspect it’s not that people can’t do the work and more that Apple’s silos mean their already employed engineers are not allowed to try or even talk about it.
- AndriyKunitsyn 4y ago
  That's interesting, are there some benchmarks that prove the inferiority of the Mac scheduler? (Without getting you into an NDA trouble, of course.)
  - CoolGuySteve 4y ago
    I don't think it matters as much any more now that we don't have spinning disks with slow seek times. For things like Final Cut/iMovie with lots of video/audio/misc tracks, it was trivial to saturate the disk with dumb seeks when reading otherwise linear data streams due to a lack of knobs.
- coldpie 4y ago
  > dinged on a performance review for negatively comparing their kernel... engineers are not allowed to try or even talk about it I wonder if it was possibly not that you compared the kernels but rather how you chose to express the comparison. For example this bit makes me think you possibly expressed your opinion combatively: > a dogshit IO scheduler Perhaps you were more polite in your day-to-day, I don't know. But your language here makes me wonder.
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    Just World Fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis
    - coldpie 4y ago
      More like, One Side of the Story :) https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/someones-side-of-the-story https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/some...
      - BeetleB 4y ago
        To be fair, all anecdotes are one side of a story :-)
  - CoolGuySteve 4y ago
    You seem to be extrapolating a lot from a single turn of phrase but the fact remains that while Apple's kernel is satisfactory, it's not really considered best of bread in anything other than maybe dtrace support. So I'm sorry I offended you with my salty language but the evidence suggests I'm far from the only one that went ignored at Apple.
    - coldpie 4y ago
      > I'm sorry I offended you You didn't.
    - 4y ago
keltor 4y ago
There's lots of them but long long gone are the days when the guy who's working on Network blah blah for Azure is allowed to do anything with Windows. Silos are good except when they become Ivory Towers which is what they have become. Sadly it seems some sort of modern managerial style since it infects almost every corporation these days.
bitwize 4y ago
AFAIK Dave Cutler is still there but he's been moved off the Windows team -- first to Xbox of all places and then to cloud, maybe?
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Most well known names that are still around have moved either into Azure or DevDiv (which I think now is under Azure as well). Which is probably the root cause of the GUI civil war happening between all desktop frameworks.
- deadso 4y ago
  "Been moved" strongly implies that it wasn't his choice. Cutler worked on some really cool Virtualization problems in Xbox and is bringing that expertise to Azure as well.
jjtheblunt 4y ago
I had this book when it first came out and it was fantastic, coming from a pretty hard core Unix background. Inside Windows NT from Microsoft Press https://a.co/d/1lxwnQt https://a.co/d/1lxwnQt

cjbgkagh 4y ago

Without that pile so many people would have nothing to do, no impact to list in their reasons for a bonus.

chowells 4y ago

I don't think you understand the position Microsoft is in. First, Candy Crush was never preinstalled. A link to purchase it in the Microsoft store was preinstalled, and it took all of two clicks to get rid of it if you wanted to. Second, preinstalling that link reduced malware infections of windows systems by a visible percentage worldwide. Microsoft has a duty to protect users who need it. Finding a compromise where the worst case for other users is that they need to click twice is pretty good.

Topgamer7 4y ago
> Second, preinstalling that link reduced malware infections of windows systems by a visible percentage worldwide. Why? Because people would pirate it? Or Just download virus laden games in general?
- giaour 4y ago
  If I wanted to set up a botnet, bundling malware in a dumb game and then putting the exe on the internet for free seems like a decent start
sakras 4y ago
How did a candy crush link reduce malware infections? Also as an aside, that link _kept coming back_ on my laptop (but not my desktop oddly).
fomine3 4y ago
Source? Why don't they also bundle Fortnite and LoL?