4 ms·

ATC can tell pilots what they need to know, right?

dx034 4y ago
The question is, how will ATC know? I'm not that familiar with their systems, but maybe they rely on them to get critical information?
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  ATC will be fine to get everyone on the ground safely. There are procedures for everything including ATC itself being down.
  - dx034 4y ago
    I never doubted that. The question is if they could've worked without a ground stop by having ATC give them all info.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      No. ATC gets busy enough as is, each plane needs NOTAMs covering their entire route, and if the system is down ATC isn’t getting them either anyways.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      If I print the NOTAMs for a 600nm flight, they're going to typically go 4+ pages of NOTAMs that are fairly specific to my flight (just for departure, along route, and destination airports) and 15+ pages if I print all available NOTAMs in a fairly small font.
  - p_l 4y ago
    ATC can get them back down, but no new flights should start.
McDyver 4y ago
NOTAM notices are not only for planes but for other people and equipment using airspace, like drones, skydivers, ... Those are not always connected with ATC, but need the information from NOTAM to plan their activities
cjrp 4y ago
The NOTAMs for a commercial flight from JFK to LAX, for example, would be several pages long. Warnings about construction work at either airport, closed taxiways, cranes in the vicinity of the airport, enroute navigational aids which are unusable, etc. ATC can't relay that for every departing flight. Additionally, the NOTAM system is where they'd retrieve these from, so if that's down they have nothing to relay.
VLM 4y ago
Its a flight planning mystery. Lets say you are not flying to, but flying by, my hometown airport. You decide arbitrarily to use it as a divert in case of awful weather or engine trouble enroute or you just want a bathroom break (this is more of a Cessna 172 airport than a 747 airport) I found a cached list of nine current NOTAMs for my home airport. Because its always better to overinform than to underinform, until the system overloads and crashes: A long ramble that boils down to you can't use one of the IFR plates for a helicopter approach because of (its a very long story but relates to the crane mentioned below) The modulation level on the closest VOR for identification/verification is low, although in legal tolerance, so you can use it but please stop trying to open the equivalent of a trouble ticket. We know the volume is both technically legal although low and not "turned up all the way". The techs say its safe until new parts arrive. There's three failed tower lights in the area (three? Supply chain problems? Labor problems? WTF?) and one temporary crane obstruction. The crane is flagged and lit, and could theoretically be 60 ft AGL which is normally below the legal limit but its on airport grounds 0.13 miles away from one runway off to the side, so please try not to hit it. Also please don't bother reporting a crane off to the side of the approach; we know all about it... Clearance delivery for the "big city" airport nearby has a remote trans/rec site nearby that's broken. Legal coverage is adequate (kind of a RAID array of retrans sites) so please stop reporting the reduced signal strength, we already know. There's some kind of flood on runway 10 when it very heavily rains; the groundskeepers will fix the drainage problem; the NWS reports 0% chance of rain today so it probably won't be an issue, but don't act all surprised. This is not a NOTAM for groundskeeper work, that would be a separate new NOTAM.
- briandear 4y ago
  Nailed it exactly. Also be advised that birds are in the vicinity of the airport.
  - psim1 4y ago
    One of our local muni airports adjacent woods always has a NOTAM advising of potential for deer on the runway.
  - spookthesunset 4y ago

The question is, how will ATC know? I'm not that familiar with their systems, but maybe they rely on them to get critical information?

ceejayoz 4y ago
ATC will be fine to get everyone on the ground safely. There are procedures for everything including ATC itself being down.
- dx034 4y ago
  I never doubted that. The question is if they could've worked without a ground stop by having ATC give them all info.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    No. ATC gets busy enough as is, each plane needs NOTAMs covering their entire route, and if the system is down ATC isn’t getting them either anyways.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    If I print the NOTAMs for a 600nm flight, they're going to typically go 4+ pages of NOTAMs that are fairly specific to my flight (just for departure, along route, and destination airports) and 15+ pages if I print all available NOTAMs in a fairly small font.
- p_l 4y ago
  ATC can get them back down, but no new flights should start.

McDyver 4y ago

NOTAM notices are not only for planes but for other people and equipment using airspace, like drones, skydivers, ... Those are not always connected with ATC, but need the information from NOTAM to plan their activities

cjrp 4y ago

The NOTAMs for a commercial flight from JFK to LAX, for example, would be several pages long. Warnings about construction work at either airport, closed taxiways, cranes in the vicinity of the airport, enroute navigational aids which are unusable, etc. ATC can't relay that for every departing flight. Additionally, the NOTAM system is where they'd retrieve these from, so if that's down they have nothing to relay.

VLM 4y ago

Its a flight planning mystery. Lets say you are not flying to, but flying by, my hometown airport. You decide arbitrarily to use it as a divert in case of awful weather or engine trouble enroute or you just want a bathroom break (this is more of a Cessna 172 airport than a 747 airport) I found a cached list of nine current NOTAMs for my home airport. Because its always better to overinform than to underinform, until the system overloads and crashes: A long ramble that boils down to you can't use one of the IFR plates for a helicopter approach because of (its a very long story but relates to the crane mentioned below) The modulation level on the closest VOR for identification/verification is low, although in legal tolerance, so you can use it but please stop trying to open the equivalent of a trouble ticket. We know the volume is both technically legal although low and not "turned up all the way". The techs say its safe until new parts arrive. There's three failed tower lights in the area (three? Supply chain problems? Labor problems? WTF?) and one temporary crane obstruction. The crane is flagged and lit, and could theoretically be 60 ft AGL which is normally below the legal limit but its on airport grounds 0.13 miles away from one runway off to the side, so please try not to hit it. Also please don't bother reporting a crane off to the side of the approach; we know all about it... Clearance delivery for the "big city" airport nearby has a remote trans/rec site nearby that's broken. Legal coverage is adequate (kind of a RAID array of retrans sites) so please stop reporting the reduced signal strength, we already know. There's some kind of flood on runway 10 when it very heavily rains; the groundskeepers will fix the drainage problem; the NWS reports 0% chance of rain today so it probably won't be an issue, but don't act all surprised. This is not a NOTAM for groundskeeper work, that would be a separate new NOTAM.

briandear 4y ago
Nailed it exactly. Also be advised that birds are in the vicinity of the airport.
- psim1 4y ago
  One of our local muni airports adjacent woods always has a NOTAM advising of potential for deer on the runway.
- spookthesunset 4y ago