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How long does it take to train a human? It's useless for two years then maybe it can tell you it needs to poop. The breakthrough will be developing this equiva

How long does it take to train a human? It's useless for two years then maybe it can tell you it needs to poop. The breakthrough will be developing this equivalent in an accessible manner and us taking care to train the thing for a couple of decades but then it becomes our friend.

licebmi__at__ 4y ago
Yes, but to be fair, the system that does the training really sucks and doesn’t scale.
- cactusplant7374 4y ago
  Neither does OpenAI. It costs so much and still delivers so little. A human can generate breakthroughs in science and tech that can be used to reduce carbon emissions. ChatGPT can do no such thing.
  - VBprogrammer 4y ago
    What percentage of humans make meaningful contributions to advancing science or technology? The overwhelming majority of us are just worker bees servicing the needs of the human population.
    - cactusplant7374 4y ago
      I agree with you on this point. It’s also arguable that less people with a better education system could yield the same result with less environmental impact. But my point, poorly explained, is that whatever ChatGPT is, it isn’t original or creative thought as a human would do it. Chomsky’s example (which is based off Turing): Do submarines swim? Yes, they swim — if that’s what you mean by swimming.
      - int_19h 4y ago
        We don't have any clear definitions for "creativity" to begin with. In practice, in these contexts, it seems to be defined as "whatever only humans can do" - that is, the goalposts are automatically moved with every AI advancement.
        cactusplant7374 4y ago
        How could they be moved when they aren't even defined in the first place? Scientists don't even know where to begin when it comes to studying the mind and human consciousness. But yes, scientists can look at your experiments and show that they don't have anything in common with human thought.
    - jsjohnst 4y ago
      > What percentage of humans make meaningful contributions to advancing science or technology? I’m a nobody that you’ve never heard of and I’ve arguably made meaningful contributions. If that’s true, don’t you think there could be way more people out there than you or sibling commenter imply?
  - tlb 4y ago
    You can't know that. Currently, 8 billion humans generate a few scientific breakthroughs per year. You'd have to run several billion ChatGPTs for a year with zero breakthroughs to have any confidence in such a claim.
    - cactusplant7374 4y ago
      At this point there is no framework that suggests GPT understands the underlying data. It can’t assign meaning as a human would. It can’t consume hundreds of math textbooks and learn the principles of math and then apply them more broadly to science textbooks and research papers. It can’t even reliably add two numbers. Yes, brute forcing with hard AI can produce many thoughts. But the AI wouldn’t know they are correct. It couldn’t explain why. Any discovery would only be attributable to randomness. It wouldn’t be learning from itself and its priors.
      - naasking 4y ago
        > At this point there is no framework that suggests GPT understands the underlying data. It can’t assign meaning as a human would. Actually there are many indications that GPT understands the data, because its output mostly makes sense. The reason it can't assign meaning the way a human would is because a human can correlate words with other sensory data that GPT doesn't have access to. That's where GPT creates nonsense. Think carefully about what "understanding" means in a mechanistic sense. It's a form of compression, and a few billion parameters encoding the contents of a large part of the internet seems like pretty good compression to me.
        ivanbakel 4y ago
        GPT doesn't display understanding of purely abstract systems, so I doubt it's an issue of lacking sensory information. It can't consistently do arithmetic, for example - and I think it would be presumptuous to insist that sensory information is a prerequisite for mathematics, even though that's how humans arrived at it.
        4y ago
- isthisthingon99 4y ago
  I still think that this will be a major form of AI that is accessible to the public at large and it will enable productivity improvements at all levels. I'm not joking, this is really something I think will/should happen.

licebmi__at__ 4y ago

Yes, but to be fair, the system that does the training really sucks and doesn’t scale.

cactusplant7374 4y ago
Neither does OpenAI. It costs so much and still delivers so little. A human can generate breakthroughs in science and tech that can be used to reduce carbon emissions. ChatGPT can do no such thing.
- VBprogrammer 4y ago
  What percentage of humans make meaningful contributions to advancing science or technology? The overwhelming majority of us are just worker bees servicing the needs of the human population.
  - cactusplant7374 4y ago
    I agree with you on this point. It’s also arguable that less people with a better education system could yield the same result with less environmental impact. But my point, poorly explained, is that whatever ChatGPT is, it isn’t original or creative thought as a human would do it. Chomsky’s example (which is based off Turing): Do submarines swim? Yes, they swim — if that’s what you mean by swimming.
    - int_19h 4y ago
      We don't have any clear definitions for "creativity" to begin with. In practice, in these contexts, it seems to be defined as "whatever only humans can do" - that is, the goalposts are automatically moved with every AI advancement.
      - cactusplant7374 4y ago
        How could they be moved when they aren't even defined in the first place? Scientists don't even know where to begin when it comes to studying the mind and human consciousness. But yes, scientists can look at your experiments and show that they don't have anything in common with human thought.
  - jsjohnst 4y ago
    > What percentage of humans make meaningful contributions to advancing science or technology? I’m a nobody that you’ve never heard of and I’ve arguably made meaningful contributions. If that’s true, don’t you think there could be way more people out there than you or sibling commenter imply?
- tlb 4y ago
  You can't know that. Currently, 8 billion humans generate a few scientific breakthroughs per year. You'd have to run several billion ChatGPTs for a year with zero breakthroughs to have any confidence in such a claim.
  - cactusplant7374 4y ago
    At this point there is no framework that suggests GPT understands the underlying data. It can’t assign meaning as a human would. It can’t consume hundreds of math textbooks and learn the principles of math and then apply them more broadly to science textbooks and research papers. It can’t even reliably add two numbers. Yes, brute forcing with hard AI can produce many thoughts. But the AI wouldn’t know they are correct. It couldn’t explain why. Any discovery would only be attributable to randomness. It wouldn’t be learning from itself and its priors.
    - naasking 4y ago
      > At this point there is no framework that suggests GPT understands the underlying data. It can’t assign meaning as a human would. Actually there are many indications that GPT understands the data, because its output mostly makes sense. The reason it can't assign meaning the way a human would is because a human can correlate words with other sensory data that GPT doesn't have access to. That's where GPT creates nonsense. Think carefully about what "understanding" means in a mechanistic sense. It's a form of compression, and a few billion parameters encoding the contents of a large part of the internet seems like pretty good compression to me.
      - ivanbakel 4y ago
        GPT doesn't display understanding of purely abstract systems, so I doubt it's an issue of lacking sensory information. It can't consistently do arithmetic, for example - and I think it would be presumptuous to insist that sensory information is a prerequisite for mathematics, even though that's how humans arrived at it.
        4y ago
isthisthingon99 4y ago
I still think that this will be a major form of AI that is accessible to the public at large and it will enable productivity improvements at all levels. I'm not joking, this is really something I think will/should happen.