4 ms·

I think it’s a branding issue. It was supposed to be a SV darling to do it first, not some legacy German carmaker. You can see significantly more negativity fo

by mrtksn 4y ago

I think it’s a branding issue. It was supposed to be a SV darling to do it first, not some legacy German carmaker. You can see significantly more negativity for non-SV tech, especially when they do something outside of the narrative. If it’s an electric car, should be batteries and not fuel cells for example. This is also one of the reasons why if a company wants to go big needs to move to SV. It looks much better when things happen the correct way, you don’t have to do all that convincing.

Hamuko 4y ago
In my mind it makes sense for Mercedes-Benz to be the first one to do this. There's probably a laundry list of automotive firsts that are associated with just the Mercedes-Benz S-Class.
- mrtksn 4y ago
  Sure, they even did some cool self driving experiments back in the 80s-90s but the tech wasn't ready. There must be a video of a mercedes loaded with PCs driving slowly but autonomously. I couldn't find the video I was looking for but this is another cool one from the 80s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HbVWm7wdmE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HbVWm7wdmE Anyway, the way I see it is, to get positive reaction you need to drive and follow the narrative. That is, for example, providing arguments about how it should be done as if it is a public debate and then reveal your tech. Then you will have fanboys and and hateboys and people will feel involved and if you do it in SV your ability to do what you say you do would not be questioned as much because magic happens in SV. You say that your car is basically a computer o wheels and the story gets traction, when a car company makes a self driving car it doesn't fit and will need to do much more convincing because the techies will be digging in to find faults. The computer on wheels might cause crashes but the techies will be much more forgiving and look for excuses.
- funcDropShadow 4y ago
  You mean like the car itself?
  - Hamuko 4y ago
    I don't think the Benz Patent-Motorwagen is considered an S-Class. Technically you could say that the S-Class is derived from the Benz Patent-Motorwagen, but you could also say that about any other car.
- dx034 4y ago
  And Mercedes has been pumping huge amounts of money into it for at least a decade. They're just much more conservative than typical SV companies so they only publicly announce products when they're ready.
  - badpun 4y ago
    Exactly, Mercedes has been doing some work on self-driving since the early nineties IIRC.
delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
> It was supposed to be a SV darling to do it first, not some legacy German carmaker. I feel quite vindicated by this, because I've always been (perhaps irrationally) rather suspicious of Tesla. Software company suddenly decides to make 'luxury cars'? Cool story bro. My opinion is that the German triad (BMW, VW (and subsidiaries, including Porsche), Merc-Benz) may have lost some ground to Tesla when it comes to EVs and self-driving cars, but they have an immense mind- and market-share and will quickly recover lost ground. They have a pretty good engineering-first mentality, too. Plus, they have always built generally good cars (late 1990s-early 2000s unreliability notwithstanding). In fact, this is not surprising at all. Audi claimed in 2017 that its A8 was capable of Level 3 self-driving[1], but the system was subsequently downgraded. In the intervening years, the Germans' research into self-driving cars has drastically expanded. [1]: https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/on-autopilot-into-the-future-the-audi-vision-of-autonomous-driving-9305/the-new-audi-a8-conditional-automated-at-level-3-9307 https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/on-autopilot-into-the-fu...
- oblio 4y ago
  > My opinion is that the German triad (BMW, VW (and subsidiaries, including Porsche), Merc-Benz) may have lost some ground to Tesla when it comes to EVs and self-driving cars, but they have an immense mind- and market-share and will quickly recover lost ground. They have a pretty good engineering-first mentality, too. Americans, SV and HN especially, are also oblivious to this. The current VW CEO was just sent packing. Why? Software quality. They know it's do or die and the level of investment into it is huge, they've been hiring software devs like crazy, in Germany.
- Karellen 4y ago
  When was Tesla ever a software company?
  - jeff_carr 4y ago
    Exactly. More like they are selling vaporware. I paid $7500 for the self driving mode _a full year ago_ and it I definitely don't expect it to ever work now. They clearly sold customers something they didn't have.

by mrtksn 4y ago

Hamuko 4y ago

In my mind it makes sense for Mercedes-Benz to be the first one to do this. There's probably a laundry list of automotive firsts that are associated with just the Mercedes-Benz S-Class.

mrtksn 4y ago
Sure, they even did some cool self driving experiments back in the 80s-90s but the tech wasn't ready. There must be a video of a mercedes loaded with PCs driving slowly but autonomously. I couldn't find the video I was looking for but this is another cool one from the 80s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HbVWm7wdmE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HbVWm7wdmE Anyway, the way I see it is, to get positive reaction you need to drive and follow the narrative. That is, for example, providing arguments about how it should be done as if it is a public debate and then reveal your tech. Then you will have fanboys and and hateboys and people will feel involved and if you do it in SV your ability to do what you say you do would not be questioned as much because magic happens in SV. You say that your car is basically a computer o wheels and the story gets traction, when a car company makes a self driving car it doesn't fit and will need to do much more convincing because the techies will be digging in to find faults. The computer on wheels might cause crashes but the techies will be much more forgiving and look for excuses.
funcDropShadow 4y ago
You mean like the car itself?
- Hamuko 4y ago
  I don't think the Benz Patent-Motorwagen is considered an S-Class. Technically you could say that the S-Class is derived from the Benz Patent-Motorwagen, but you could also say that about any other car.
dx034 4y ago
And Mercedes has been pumping huge amounts of money into it for at least a decade. They're just much more conservative than typical SV companies so they only publicly announce products when they're ready.
- badpun 4y ago
  Exactly, Mercedes has been doing some work on self-driving since the early nineties IIRC.

delta_p_delta_x 4y ago

> It was supposed to be a SV darling to do it first, not some legacy German carmaker. I feel quite vindicated by this, because I've always been (perhaps irrationally) rather suspicious of Tesla. Software company suddenly decides to make 'luxury cars'? Cool story bro. My opinion is that the German triad (BMW, VW (and subsidiaries, including Porsche), Merc-Benz) may have lost some ground to Tesla when it comes to EVs and self-driving cars, but they have an immense mind- and market-share and will quickly recover lost ground. They have a pretty good engineering-first mentality, too. Plus, they have always built generally good cars (late 1990s-early 2000s unreliability notwithstanding). In fact, this is not surprising at all. Audi claimed in 2017 that its A8 was capable of Level 3 self-driving[1], but the system was subsequently downgraded. In the intervening years, the Germans' research into self-driving cars has drastically expanded. [1]: https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/on-autopilot-into-the-future-the-audi-vision-of-autonomous-driving-9305/the-new-audi-a8-conditional-automated-at-level-3-9307 https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/on-autopilot-into-the-fu...

oblio 4y ago
> My opinion is that the German triad (BMW, VW (and subsidiaries, including Porsche), Merc-Benz) may have lost some ground to Tesla when it comes to EVs and self-driving cars, but they have an immense mind- and market-share and will quickly recover lost ground. They have a pretty good engineering-first mentality, too. Americans, SV and HN especially, are also oblivious to this. The current VW CEO was just sent packing. Why? Software quality. They know it's do or die and the level of investment into it is huge, they've been hiring software devs like crazy, in Germany.
Karellen 4y ago
When was Tesla ever a software company?
- jeff_carr 4y ago
  Exactly. More like they are selling vaporware. I paid $7500 for the self driving mode _a full year ago_ and it I definitely don't expect it to ever work now. They clearly sold customers something they didn't have.