6 ms·

My one-step-shy-of-tinfoil-hat dad loves to say that he thinks climate change is BS. He has no expertise on which to claim this, but when prompted he'll cite "

My one-step-shy-of-tinfoil-hat dad loves to say that he thinks climate change is BS. He has no expertise on which to claim this, but when prompted he'll cite "it used to be that we had to worry about the ozone layer ... " -- I'll patiently explain how the Montreal Protocol has mitigated the problem, that's why it doesn't come up anymore. And bringing up the ozone layer is actually a great case for policies that intervene to preserve our environment. He'll generally change the subject or focus on some other modern "dystopia" rather than acknowledge being wrong.

crackercrews 4y ago
When the ozone layer was being depleted, did the scientists sounding the alarm say that it could be healed in this period of time? Honest question. If not then your father might be reacting to doomsaying that turned out to be overzealous.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
  At the time there wasn't much focus on timelines (besides being a long term undertaking), only that there was a hole in the ozone layer and that it could be fixed by avoiding certain refrigerants. As they were taken off the market the progress in regulating the CFCs and the ozone layer healing was noted, and it faded away as a concern. At the time I lived under said hole, so it was in the news quite a bit.
- krisoft 4y ago
  > If not then your father might be reacting to doomsaying that turned out to be overzealous. Also known as the: Boy-who-cried-wolf-so-we-hired-hunters-who-killed-the-wolfs-and-look-there-is-no-wolfs-anymore-stupid-boy story.
heavyset_go 4y ago
Bring up the fact that it's going to take decades for the ozone layer to reach its previous levels. We still have to worry about the ozone layer, it leads to higher rates of skin and eye disease, including cancers, it can have deleterious effects on plants, phytoplankton and fish, and it can accelerate the breakdown of different materials[1]. Increased radiation reaching the surface of the Earth has a ton of effects on humans that are pretty awful[2]. [1] https://www.epa.gov/ozone-layer-protection/health-and-environmental-effects-ozone-layer-depletion https://www.epa.gov/ozone-layer-protection/health-and-enviro... [2] https://www.epa.gov/sunsafety/health-effects-uv-radiation https://www.epa.gov/sunsafety/health-effects-uv-radiation
- ForOldHack 4y ago
  Decades? Dr Drew Schndell, PhD @ GEOS said 159 years, not 20.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    Those are decades, as well. I did not imply that it would be a short time frame, it was just a unit I chose.
vkou 4y ago
> He'll generally change the subject or focus on some other modern "dystopia" rather than acknowledge being wrong. It's an exceptional debating tactic. When you can't win the argument you're having, pivot to an argument that you can win.
- prox 4y ago
  For some people, debating is personal, an attack on the person itself rather than the argument. So losing the argument is kind of akin to losing face yourself. People become emotional in such a setting. It’s a sign of over investing in a belief system with (ad hoc) rationales attached to it.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tasty_freeze 4y ago
I'd say to him with a straight face that polio never existed, it was just a big hoax. Why, I don't know a single person who has it!
- wyldfire 4y ago
  > Why, I don't know a single person who has it! Yeah ... he had it! In his glory days he would talk proudly about Jonas Salk but after decades of watching the Two Minutes Hate he may not be such a big fan anymore.
  - Slava_Propanei 4y ago
    [dead]
  - shapefrog 4y ago
    > Yeah ... he had it! I don't believe him. You can tell him a person on the internet is 100% certain he is a big pharma paid shill crisis actor.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  That might just make things worse - he may start believing Polio never existed. Big Pharma and whatnot.
- smcl 4y ago
  Might be safer to just let this slide, not talk about ozone/climate and try to gently steer him away from antivax, qanon stuff etc. Can be nigh on impossible to bring anyone back from that
xkbarkar 4y ago
Internet bashing someones dad… This is really low quality thread material and brings nothing to the conversation. Cant you bring this kind of pointless addedums to that other site that must not be named?
- acdha 4y ago
  Many people have relatives like that and one of the key challenges for this century is figuring out how to get them to understand that the fossil fuel industry propaganda they’ve been steeping in is wrong. A successful example of collective action solving a problem at minimal cost to the economy seems like an important tool in that effort.
  - Slava_Propanei 4y ago
    [dead]

crackercrews 4y ago

When the ozone layer was being depleted, did the scientists sounding the alarm say that it could be healed in this period of time? Honest question. If not then your father might be reacting to doomsaying that turned out to be overzealous.

dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
At the time there wasn't much focus on timelines (besides being a long term undertaking), only that there was a hole in the ozone layer and that it could be fixed by avoiding certain refrigerants. As they were taken off the market the progress in regulating the CFCs and the ozone layer healing was noted, and it faded away as a concern. At the time I lived under said hole, so it was in the news quite a bit.
krisoft 4y ago
> If not then your father might be reacting to doomsaying that turned out to be overzealous. Also known as the: Boy-who-cried-wolf-so-we-hired-hunters-who-killed-the-wolfs-and-look-there-is-no-wolfs-anymore-stupid-boy story.

heavyset_go 4y ago

Bring up the fact that it's going to take decades for the ozone layer to reach its previous levels. We still have to worry about the ozone layer, it leads to higher rates of skin and eye disease, including cancers, it can have deleterious effects on plants, phytoplankton and fish, and it can accelerate the breakdown of different materials[1]. Increased radiation reaching the surface of the Earth has a ton of effects on humans that are pretty awful[2]. [1] https://www.epa.gov/ozone-layer-protection/health-and-environmental-effects-ozone-layer-depletion https://www.epa.gov/ozone-layer-protection/health-and-enviro... [2] https://www.epa.gov/sunsafety/health-effects-uv-radiation https://www.epa.gov/sunsafety/health-effects-uv-radiation

ForOldHack 4y ago
Decades? Dr Drew Schndell, PhD @ GEOS said 159 years, not 20.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  Those are decades, as well. I did not imply that it would be a short time frame, it was just a unit I chose.

vkou 4y ago

> He'll generally change the subject or focus on some other modern "dystopia" rather than acknowledge being wrong. It's an exceptional debating tactic. When you can't win the argument you're having, pivot to an argument that you can win.

prox 4y ago
For some people, debating is personal, an attack on the person itself rather than the argument. So losing the argument is kind of akin to losing face yourself. People become emotional in such a setting. It’s a sign of over investing in a belief system with (ad hoc) rationales attached to it.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

tasty_freeze 4y ago

I'd say to him with a straight face that polio never existed, it was just a big hoax. Why, I don't know a single person who has it!

wyldfire 4y ago
> Why, I don't know a single person who has it! Yeah ... he had it! In his glory days he would talk proudly about Jonas Salk but after decades of watching the Two Minutes Hate he may not be such a big fan anymore.
- Slava_Propanei 4y ago
  [dead]
- shapefrog 4y ago
  > Yeah ... he had it! I don't believe him. You can tell him a person on the internet is 100% certain he is a big pharma paid shill crisis actor.
arcticbull 4y ago
That might just make things worse - he may start believing Polio never existed. Big Pharma and whatnot.
smcl 4y ago
Might be safer to just let this slide, not talk about ozone/climate and try to gently steer him away from antivax, qanon stuff etc. Can be nigh on impossible to bring anyone back from that

xkbarkar 4y ago

Internet bashing someones dad… This is really low quality thread material and brings nothing to the conversation. Cant you bring this kind of pointless addedums to that other site that must not be named?

acdha 4y ago
Many people have relatives like that and one of the key challenges for this century is figuring out how to get them to understand that the fossil fuel industry propaganda they’ve been steeping in is wrong. A successful example of collective action solving a problem at minimal cost to the economy seems like an important tool in that effort.
- Slava_Propanei 4y ago
  [dead]