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Not really, if you watch it the SUV jerks out of the lane. The drivers behind him aren't following too closely they just get no opportunity. Stopping room consi

Not really, if you watch it the SUV jerks out of the lane. The drivers behind him aren't following too closely they just get no opportunity. Stopping room considers the stopping distance of the vehicle in front of you too. You can really expect to have stopping distance from an obstruction appearing in front of you out of sight.

naikrovek 4y ago
no opportunity means they were following too closely. if the car in front of you suddenly comes to a complete stop, you need to have enough time to brake to prevent yourself from hitting that vehicle without changing lanes. if you are so close that you can't stop in time in that situation, you are following too closely. end of statement. yes that does happen to cars, by the way. a car driving at speed X which hits another car head-on at speed X will cause both cars to come to a complete stop, instantly, provided they are the same mass. usually they are not the same mass, so that car which you were following could suddenly not only stop, but change direction and accelerate towards you. crashes also usually don't happen head-on, so you must be ready when the inevitable does happen to you or around you. sometimes you can't prevent what happens, but you can always prevent colliding into the car in front of you. these things happen hundreds of times per day, if not thousands of times per day, EVERY DAY. If you don't make time to stop, you do not have time to stop.
- mlyle 4y ago
  > no opportunity means they were following too closely. The car departed the lane next to them, dove in front of them, and stopped. Do you always leave enough space so that a vehicle in the lane next to you can do this? > if you are so close that you can't stop in time in that situation, you are following too closely. end of statement. > yes that does happen to cars, by the way. a car driving at speed X which hits another car head-on at speed X will cause both cars to come to a complete stop, instantly, provided they are the same mass. usually they are not the same mass, so that car which you were following could suddenly not only stop, but change direction and accelerate towards you. Recommended following distances are nowhere near "instant stop of vehicle in front of you plus reaction time". E.g. California recommends 3 seconds of distance at your current speed-- 286 feet. Real world stopping distances are often ~300+ feet, after 100 feet+ of reaction time (yes, I know that vehicle tests in ideal conditions often achieve something more like 150 feet not including reaction times).
  - naikrovek 4y ago
    please get a "rules of the road" booklet from your local driver's services facility and read it. assuming you are in California: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-han... operating a motor vehicle in the United States requires that you have this entire booklet (or that of another state; they are all nearly identical) memorized, cover to cover.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      I'm not sure why you sent this to me. That book was actually the source of: * The 3 second rule I cited: "To avoid tailgating, use the “3 second rule”: when the vehicle ahead of you passes a certain point, such as a sign, count “one-thousand-one, one-thousand- two, one-thousand-three.” This takes approximately 3 seconds. If you pass the same point before you finish counting, you are following too closely." https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/visual-search/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-han... * Real-world stopping distances being longer than 3 seconds (3 seconds * 55MPH = 242 feet) -- "Assuming you have good tires, brakes, and dry pavement: At 55 mph, it takes about 400 feet to react and bring your vehicle to a complete stop." Of course, all this is orthogonal to my main point: If someone dives and brakes in front of you, with a slower starting speed and equivalent or better brakes: you're a-gonna hit them. And no one seriously proposes that you should never drive faster than the lane next to you, which would be the only way to avoid this.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - omgwtfbyobbq 4y ago
    Following distances are just guidelines, assuming traffic is moving normally. The California Driver's Handbook says... > California’s “Basic Speed Law” means that you may never drive faster than is safe for current conditions. > You must drive slower when there is heavy traffic or bad weather. However, if you block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic by driving too slowly, you may be cited. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-han... The Tesla, FSD or not, blocked the flow of traffic and was partially at fault. The vehicles behind the Tesla were driving too fast given the conditions and were also partially at fault. The handbook is structured to minimize the chance/danger of accidents even if other drivers aren't adhering to it.
- amatecha 4y ago
  Yeah, watching the video, the vehicles behind had every opportunity to prevent the accident(s). They were all following too closely (in general) and didn't decelerate in proper response to the conditions. I've had vehicles literally pull out in front of me (like crossing the road I'm on perpendicularly) and I still braked to a correct extent to avoid t-boning the idiot who made a colossal mistake. As soon as they even edged forward, I was already feathering the brake anticipating the situation. I would have done the same if this Tesla changed into my lane with such poor distance. The person who hit the Tesla could absolutely without question have avoided hitting them. I can see that the driver applies their brakes but clearly not hard enough. I think they incorrectly expected the Tesla to resume speed. Emergencies happen, sometimes the person in front of you may completely slam their brakes on. In this case, the Tesla was WELL into the lane before they braked, so the driver behind already had every opportunity to ensure proper distance -- the Tesla had long since become "a vehicle in your lane in front of you". Further, so many of the drivers in this video have a serious lack of driving skill, as they simply maintain speed and try to swerve around, creating dangerous conditions for themselves and everyone around them.
- monkeydreams 4y ago
  > no opportunity means they were following too closely. No. This is the difference between following a car that slows suddenly and stops versus a stationary object suddenly appears on the road in front of you. > if the car in front of you suddenly comes to a complete stop, This is the point - the car in front of them moved and revealed an already stationary car. The SUV jerked out of the lane without warning or prolonged use of brake lights right behind the stopped Tesla. The following drivers suddenly have far less processing and reaction time and likely would not be aware for at least a second that the car now in front of them was actually stopped and not just slowing down.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    You should always leave at least two secondstothe car in front. The first car behind the SUV may have had no time to stop if the speed limit was over 80km/h, but everyone behind had no excuse.

naikrovek 4y ago

no opportunity means they were following too closely. if the car in front of you suddenly comes to a complete stop, you need to have enough time to brake to prevent yourself from hitting that vehicle without changing lanes. if you are so close that you can't stop in time in that situation, you are following too closely. end of statement. yes that does happen to cars, by the way. a car driving at speed X which hits another car head-on at speed X will cause both cars to come to a complete stop, instantly, provided they are the same mass. usually they are not the same mass, so that car which you were following could suddenly not only stop, but change direction and accelerate towards you. crashes also usually don't happen head-on, so you must be ready when the inevitable does happen to you or around you. sometimes you can't prevent what happens, but you can always prevent colliding into the car in front of you. these things happen hundreds of times per day, if not thousands of times per day, EVERY DAY. If you don't make time to stop, you do not have time to stop.

mlyle 4y ago
> no opportunity means they were following too closely. The car departed the lane next to them, dove in front of them, and stopped. Do you always leave enough space so that a vehicle in the lane next to you can do this? > if you are so close that you can't stop in time in that situation, you are following too closely. end of statement. > yes that does happen to cars, by the way. a car driving at speed X which hits another car head-on at speed X will cause both cars to come to a complete stop, instantly, provided they are the same mass. usually they are not the same mass, so that car which you were following could suddenly not only stop, but change direction and accelerate towards you. Recommended following distances are nowhere near "instant stop of vehicle in front of you plus reaction time". E.g. California recommends 3 seconds of distance at your current speed-- 286 feet. Real world stopping distances are often ~300+ feet, after 100 feet+ of reaction time (yes, I know that vehicle tests in ideal conditions often achieve something more like 150 feet not including reaction times).
- naikrovek 4y ago
  please get a "rules of the road" booklet from your local driver's services facility and read it. assuming you are in California: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-han... operating a motor vehicle in the United States requires that you have this entire booklet (or that of another state; they are all nearly identical) memorized, cover to cover.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    I'm not sure why you sent this to me. That book was actually the source of: * The 3 second rule I cited: "To avoid tailgating, use the “3 second rule”: when the vehicle ahead of you passes a certain point, such as a sign, count “one-thousand-one, one-thousand- two, one-thousand-three.” This takes approximately 3 seconds. If you pass the same point before you finish counting, you are following too closely." https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/visual-search/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-han... * Real-world stopping distances being longer than 3 seconds (3 seconds * 55MPH = 242 feet) -- "Assuming you have good tires, brakes, and dry pavement: At 55 mph, it takes about 400 feet to react and bring your vehicle to a complete stop." Of course, all this is orthogonal to my main point: If someone dives and brakes in front of you, with a slower starting speed and equivalent or better brakes: you're a-gonna hit them. And no one seriously proposes that you should never drive faster than the lane next to you, which would be the only way to avoid this.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- omgwtfbyobbq 4y ago
  Following distances are just guidelines, assuming traffic is moving normally. The California Driver's Handbook says... > California’s “Basic Speed Law” means that you may never drive faster than is safe for current conditions. > You must drive slower when there is heavy traffic or bad weather. However, if you block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic by driving too slowly, you may be cited. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-han... The Tesla, FSD or not, blocked the flow of traffic and was partially at fault. The vehicles behind the Tesla were driving too fast given the conditions and were also partially at fault. The handbook is structured to minimize the chance/danger of accidents even if other drivers aren't adhering to it.
amatecha 4y ago
Yeah, watching the video, the vehicles behind had every opportunity to prevent the accident(s). They were all following too closely (in general) and didn't decelerate in proper response to the conditions. I've had vehicles literally pull out in front of me (like crossing the road I'm on perpendicularly) and I still braked to a correct extent to avoid t-boning the idiot who made a colossal mistake. As soon as they even edged forward, I was already feathering the brake anticipating the situation. I would have done the same if this Tesla changed into my lane with such poor distance. The person who hit the Tesla could absolutely without question have avoided hitting them. I can see that the driver applies their brakes but clearly not hard enough. I think they incorrectly expected the Tesla to resume speed. Emergencies happen, sometimes the person in front of you may completely slam their brakes on. In this case, the Tesla was WELL into the lane before they braked, so the driver behind already had every opportunity to ensure proper distance -- the Tesla had long since become "a vehicle in your lane in front of you". Further, so many of the drivers in this video have a serious lack of driving skill, as they simply maintain speed and try to swerve around, creating dangerous conditions for themselves and everyone around them.
monkeydreams 4y ago
> no opportunity means they were following too closely. No. This is the difference between following a car that slows suddenly and stops versus a stationary object suddenly appears on the road in front of you. > if the car in front of you suddenly comes to a complete stop, This is the point - the car in front of them moved and revealed an already stationary car. The SUV jerked out of the lane without warning or prolonged use of brake lights right behind the stopped Tesla. The following drivers suddenly have far less processing and reaction time and likely would not be aware for at least a second that the car now in front of them was actually stopped and not just slowing down.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  You should always leave at least two secondstothe car in front. The first car behind the SUV may have had no time to stop if the speed limit was over 80km/h, but everyone behind had no excuse.