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Many of those we do all get vaccinated against as children. It sounds like you're opposed to vaccines until they pass a magic "recently dead" threshhold? Appare

Many of those we do all get vaccinated against as children. It sounds like you're opposed to vaccines until they pass a magic "recently dead" threshhold? Apparently that threshhold is higher than 6.7 million, which is COVID's death count so far. So where's it at? Or perhaps you erroneously believe it's possible to live in a functional society where nobody has any responsibilities whatsoever to eachother and the maintenance of that society? lol, should we stop vaccinating against polio (in that list you linked) cause nobody's died from it recently? I mean, the chance of dying from polio is 0, right? You say this isn't an undergraduate dorm basement but you're using couch-in-the-garage arguments here. Honestly the CDC article for parents concerned about vaccinating their kids basically handles what you've said so far: https://www.unicef.org/parenting/health/parents-frequently-asked-questions-vaccines https://www.unicef.org/parenting/health/parents-frequently-a... > But these diseases are not present in my community. Do I still need to vaccinate my child? > Yes. Although the diseases may be eliminated in your country or region, our increasingly interconnected world means that these diseases could spread from areas where they are still present. > What is herd immunity? > If enough people in your community are immunized against a certain disease, you can reach something called herd immunity. When this happens, diseases can’t spread easily from person to person because most people are immune. This provides a layer of protection against the disease even for those who cannot be vaccinated, such as infants. > Herd immunity also prevents outbreaks by making it difficult for the disease to spread. The disease will become more and more rare, sometimes even disappearing entirely from the community. Even if the risk of outright death to you is low, you have a responsibility to create a link in the herd immunity chain (even though covid vaccines don't provide true immunity), to help prevent those rare few who legitimately shouldn't get vaccinated, from getting infected. That's not even mentioning that COVID doesn't necessarily have to kill you to make you wish you'd got vaccinated: i know plenty who got infected pre-vaccines that suffer long term side effects in terms of their breathing ability, one of whom was a marathon runner. Tell me he wasn't healthy before? Why do you reject this social responsibility, that has the upside of making a possible covid infection for you dramatically less likely to hospitalize you, let alone prevent long covid as well as simply make an infection less uncomfortable?

brigandish 4y ago
> Many of those we do all get vaccinated against as children. It's not relevant as I did not ask about getting vaccines for things that are a risk or where the benefits outweigh the risks. Have you thought about arguing against the points I made? I know it's convenient to use a straw man but it's really not very interesting and it looks weak. > It sounds like you're opposed to vaccines until they pass a magic "recently dead" threshhold? I'm opposed to medical interventions where the benefits do not outweigh the risks. You know, like doctors and people like that. It's why they usually don't give out medicine like sweeties. <cough> opioid crisis <cough cough>. > Apparently that threshhold is higher than 6.7 million, which is COVID's death count so far. So where's it at? As I've pointed out (repeatedly), the vast, vast majority of those were with comorbidities such as age and/or health problems related to obesity. Those people, who we know are at high risk and for whom the benefits outweigh the risks should probably get vaccinated, if they wish to. > Or perhaps you erroneously believe it's possible to live in a functional society where nobody has any responsibilities whatsoever to eachother and the maintenance of that society? Thank you, Chairman Mao, for your insightful words. The nail that stands up truly should be knocked down! How many more straw men while I have to endure…? > lol, should we stop vaccinating against polio (in that list you linked) cause nobody's died from it recently? I mean, the chance of dying from polio is 0, right? …and there we have another straw man, apparently by a teenager, "lol". The benefits of the polio vaccine outweigh the risks. I can keep repeating this until you get it into your head. "lol". > Even if the risk of outright death to you is low, you have a responsibility to create a link in the herd immunity chain No, I don't, and there will be no herd immunity for COVID-19. This has been known for at least 18 months now (even the NYT will reported that[1], on a loooong time lag) and was the likely outcome long before that. > That's not even mentioning that COVID doesn't necessarily have to kill you… The risks of disease severity that correlate with known comorbidities hold for every stage of the disease, from hospital admission, to ICU admission, to use of respirator, to death. It's not that you get healthy people all the way to the ICU and then suddenly it's the fatties getting respirators and dying. Jesus wept. If you won't look at the data at least apply some common sense. > i know plenty who got infected pre-vaccines that suffer long term side effects in terms of their breathing ability, one of whom was a marathon runner. Tell me he wasn't healthy before? Anecdotes are not data, and such a small number of healthy people have encountered severe disease that, unless you believe in magic, he had a comorbidity that is yet to be understood or known - either in general or in his specific case (do you have his blood tests or know if he's one of the people that produce low amounts of interferon?) We do not live in the world of Harry Potter. Or, you know, you could just look at the literature: > The marathon running population does not constitute solely persons with excellent cardiovascular health. Marathon runners, especially those with a family history of heart disease and other coronary risk factors, should not consider themselves immune to either sudden death or to coronary heart disease > Why do you reject this social responsibility Because it only exists in your head. > that has the upside of making a possible covid infection for you dramatically less likely to hospitalize you The effect of exercise was greater than any of the vaccines on all health events related to COVID-19. Read the paper Associations of Physical Inactivity and COVID-19 Outcomes Among Subgroups I shared above. > let alone prevent long covid as well as simply make an infection less uncomfortable? If you're talking about preventing COVID-19 then you should look up what sterilizing immunity[3] is, and note that none of the COVID-19 vaccines provide it. As to comfort, when I had COVID-10 I found that painkillers helped a lot. So, I asked a specific question that you ignored so I will make it more specific and explicit - please, tell us all why we should get the Yellow Fever vaccine even though most of us are not at risk of catching it and hence, the benefits cannot outweigh the risks. It'll be interesting watching you argue against medical orthodoxy. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/health/covid-herd-immunity-vaccine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/health/covid-herd-immunit... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3298928/#article-details https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3298928/#article-details [3] https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/501677-what-is-sterilizing-immunity-and-do-we-need-it/#content https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-c...

brigandish 4y ago

> Many of those we do all get vaccinated against as children. It's not relevant as I did not ask about getting vaccines for things that are a risk or where the benefits outweigh the risks. Have you thought about arguing against the points I made? I know it's convenient to use a straw man but it's really not very interesting and it looks weak. > It sounds like you're opposed to vaccines until they pass a magic "recently dead" threshhold? I'm opposed to medical interventions where the benefits do not outweigh the risks. You know, like doctors and people like that. It's why they usually don't give out medicine like sweeties. <cough> opioid crisis <cough cough>. > Apparently that threshhold is higher than 6.7 million, which is COVID's death count so far. So where's it at? As I've pointed out (repeatedly), the vast, vast majority of those were with comorbidities such as age and/or health problems related to obesity. Those people, who we know are at high risk and for whom the benefits outweigh the risks should probably get vaccinated, if they wish to. > Or perhaps you erroneously believe it's possible to live in a functional society where nobody has any responsibilities whatsoever to eachother and the maintenance of that society? Thank you, Chairman Mao, for your insightful words. The nail that stands up truly should be knocked down! How many more straw men while I have to endure…? > lol, should we stop vaccinating against polio (in that list you linked) cause nobody's died from it recently? I mean, the chance of dying from polio is 0, right? …and there we have another straw man, apparently by a teenager, "lol". The benefits of the polio vaccine outweigh the risks. I can keep repeating this until you get it into your head. "lol". > Even if the risk of outright death to you is low, you have a responsibility to create a link in the herd immunity chain No, I don't, and there will be no herd immunity for COVID-19. This has been known for at least 18 months now (even the NYT will reported that[1], on a loooong time lag) and was the likely outcome long before that. > That's not even mentioning that COVID doesn't necessarily have to kill you… The risks of disease severity that correlate with known comorbidities hold for every stage of the disease, from hospital admission, to ICU admission, to use of respirator, to death. It's not that you get healthy people all the way to the ICU and then suddenly it's the fatties getting respirators and dying. Jesus wept. If you won't look at the data at least apply some common sense. > i know plenty who got infected pre-vaccines that suffer long term side effects in terms of their breathing ability, one of whom was a marathon runner. Tell me he wasn't healthy before? Anecdotes are not data, and such a small number of healthy people have encountered severe disease that, unless you believe in magic, he had a comorbidity that is yet to be understood or known - either in general or in his specific case (do you have his blood tests or know if he's one of the people that produce low amounts of interferon?) We do not live in the world of Harry Potter. Or, you know, you could just look at the literature: > The marathon running population does not constitute solely persons with excellent cardiovascular health. Marathon runners, especially those with a family history of heart disease and other coronary risk factors, should not consider themselves immune to either sudden death or to coronary heart disease > Why do you reject this social responsibility Because it only exists in your head. > that has the upside of making a possible covid infection for you dramatically less likely to hospitalize you The effect of exercise was greater than any of the vaccines on all health events related to COVID-19. Read the paper Associations of Physical Inactivity and COVID-19 Outcomes Among Subgroups I shared above. > let alone prevent long covid as well as simply make an infection less uncomfortable? If you're talking about preventing COVID-19 then you should look up what sterilizing immunity[3] is, and note that none of the COVID-19 vaccines provide it. As to comfort, when I had COVID-10 I found that painkillers helped a lot. So, I asked a specific question that you ignored so I will make it more specific and explicit - please, tell us all why we should get the Yellow Fever vaccine even though most of us are not at risk of catching it and hence, the benefits cannot outweigh the risks. It'll be interesting watching you argue against medical orthodoxy. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/health/covid-herd-immunity-vaccine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/health/covid-herd-immunit... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3298928/#article-details https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3298928/#article-details [3] https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/501677-what-is-sterilizing-immunity-and-do-we-need-it/#content https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-c...