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> Erin’s VP of sales had just bought a condo in Miami to be next to her aging parents […] > > Her VP of Sales might be wonderful, but with the all the trave

by bsima 4y ago

> Erin’s VP of sales had just bought a condo in Miami to be next to her aging parents […] > > Her VP of Sales might be wonderful, but with the all the travel the company is only getting her half-time. Erin needs a full-time head of sales in New York. Time to have a difficult conversation. Hustle culture nonsense. Family is important https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/12/the-tail-end.html https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/12/the-tail-end.html IMO there’s always a way to do both. If there really isn’t, choose family.

deleted 4y ago
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arolihas 4y ago
I am surprised those lines were in there. The point could have easily been made without an anecdote about the author recommending to fire an employee who is taking care of their family. Seems needlessly cruel and detracts from the message.
- adasdasdas 4y ago
  Being an exec is choice to commit an exorbitant amount of your time/energy on your job. You can always settle for an easier/lower paying job. You don't see the president complaining the job is stressful.
  - tacheiordache 4y ago
    But your payback is enormously larger.
    - munificent 4y ago
      ...sometimes.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > the author recommending to fire an employee who is taking care of their family Not sure why fired versus put on different comp and maybe asked to vacate the VP of Sales role.
- klyrs 4y ago
  > Seems needlessly cruel and detracts from the message. I'm not so sure. I mean, yes it's needlessly cruel, but that's the message that I get from a lot of people who subscribe to hustle culture. You are worth the value of your output plus nepotism minus your comp. People with families are ghosts, don't talk to them.
eloff 4y ago
I agree that you should choose family, but I disagree that it’s nonsense. It’s a simple tradeoff of money/success versus what actually matters. Assuming there isn’t some win-win compromise being overlooked. Usually there’s no free lunch. But focus on the important stuff in life, you’ll be happier and have fewer regrets.
scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
You are absolutely right, that’s what makes it a difficult conversation. It’s not motivational hustle crap though - that CEO must make a decision around allocating resources there.
jacobsenscott 4y ago
Some positions require a full time employee. I'm sure many of the employees have families, and you're putting them all at risk if you allow a critical full time position to work half time. That isn't hustle culture.
- bsima 4y ago
  Commuting 4 days a week to NYC is not half time. (Presumably those 4 days are spent working ~12-16h.)
  - jacobsenscott 4y ago
    Lol. 2 days a week is not half time (presumably those 2 days are spent working ~20h)
mjrbrennan 4y ago
> commuting to NY four days a week How on earth do people do this? This is 3 hours of flight time each way 4 days a week...do they do something like fly 6am-9am, work 10am-5pm, fly 6pm-9pm, then do it all again the next day (this is also giving woefully small buffer times)? Or am I misunderstanding? Sounds awful.
- ido 4y ago
  Fly in Monday morning and back Thursday evening.
  - mjrbrennan 4y ago
    Oh I see, it was just worded kind of awkwardly. Thanks for clarifying.
- hammock 4y ago
  Usually it means one round trip a week
chadash 4y ago
This doesn’t even strike me as a good example. In management consulting, flying out to a customer site from Monday to Thursday is the norm. I’ve heard plenty of criticism about McKinsey. I’ve never heard anyone say they don’t work hard. In fact, that way of life might mean you work more hours if anything. If you live in Miami and work four days a week in NYC, you are likely working very long days. You are not near your friends or family or your chores… that could be four days devoted exclusively to work, say 12-14 hours a day, followed by a Friday working remotely. I can see why a salesperson might need to be in person 4 days a week. But I have a hard time imagining that five days is necessary. VP of Sales has plenty of administrative work to do, and many meetings can be over the phone anyway. To call this employee “half time” is insane.
geodel 4y ago
> IMO there’s always a way to do both. If there really isn’t, choose family. Huh, this choosing family is a kind of luxury not everyone can afford. Otherwise we would not have mass migration of working people across cities, states, countries and continents leaving families behind. Unless of course they are all stupid enough to not know the value of family.
deleted 4y ago
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by bsima 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

arolihas 4y ago

I am surprised those lines were in there. The point could have easily been made without an anecdote about the author recommending to fire an employee who is taking care of their family. Seems needlessly cruel and detracts from the message.

adasdasdas 4y ago
Being an exec is choice to commit an exorbitant amount of your time/energy on your job. You can always settle for an easier/lower paying job. You don't see the president complaining the job is stressful.
- tacheiordache 4y ago
  But your payback is enormously larger.
  - munificent 4y ago
    ...sometimes.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> the author recommending to fire an employee who is taking care of their family Not sure why fired versus put on different comp and maybe asked to vacate the VP of Sales role.
klyrs 4y ago
> Seems needlessly cruel and detracts from the message. I'm not so sure. I mean, yes it's needlessly cruel, but that's the message that I get from a lot of people who subscribe to hustle culture. You are worth the value of your output plus nepotism minus your comp. People with families are ghosts, don't talk to them.

eloff 4y ago

I agree that you should choose family, but I disagree that it’s nonsense. It’s a simple tradeoff of money/success versus what actually matters. Assuming there isn’t some win-win compromise being overlooked. Usually there’s no free lunch. But focus on the important stuff in life, you’ll be happier and have fewer regrets.

scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago

You are absolutely right, that’s what makes it a difficult conversation. It’s not motivational hustle crap though - that CEO must make a decision around allocating resources there.

jacobsenscott 4y ago

Some positions require a full time employee. I'm sure many of the employees have families, and you're putting them all at risk if you allow a critical full time position to work half time. That isn't hustle culture.

bsima 4y ago
Commuting 4 days a week to NYC is not half time. (Presumably those 4 days are spent working ~12-16h.)
- jacobsenscott 4y ago
  Lol. 2 days a week is not half time (presumably those 2 days are spent working ~20h)

mjrbrennan 4y ago

> commuting to NY four days a week How on earth do people do this? This is 3 hours of flight time each way 4 days a week...do they do something like fly 6am-9am, work 10am-5pm, fly 6pm-9pm, then do it all again the next day (this is also giving woefully small buffer times)? Or am I misunderstanding? Sounds awful.

ido 4y ago
Fly in Monday morning and back Thursday evening.
- mjrbrennan 4y ago
  Oh I see, it was just worded kind of awkwardly. Thanks for clarifying.
hammock 4y ago
Usually it means one round trip a week

chadash 4y ago

This doesn’t even strike me as a good example. In management consulting, flying out to a customer site from Monday to Thursday is the norm. I’ve heard plenty of criticism about McKinsey. I’ve never heard anyone say they don’t work hard. In fact, that way of life might mean you work more hours if anything. If you live in Miami and work four days a week in NYC, you are likely working very long days. You are not near your friends or family or your chores… that could be four days devoted exclusively to work, say 12-14 hours a day, followed by a Friday working remotely. I can see why a salesperson might need to be in person 4 days a week. But I have a hard time imagining that five days is necessary. VP of Sales has plenty of administrative work to do, and many meetings can be over the phone anyway. To call this employee “half time” is insane.

geodel 4y ago

> IMO there’s always a way to do both. If there really isn’t, choose family. Huh, this choosing family is a kind of luxury not everyone can afford. Otherwise we would not have mass migration of working people across cities, states, countries and continents leaving families behind. Unless of course they are all stupid enough to not know the value of family.

deleted 4y ago

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