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There has been an ongoing and pervasive systematic increase in stories portraying a negative light on Iran and Iranian society. This, along with obvious current

by cup 15y ago

There has been an ongoing and pervasive systematic increase in stories portraying a negative light on Iran and Iranian society. This, along with obvious current affair issues, leads me to believe that a 'propaganda war' much akin to the one we saw before Iraq and Afghanistan is slowly coming to life. The fact of the matter is that amongst all the countries in the Middle East, Iran is the one that most Americans and Europeans would probably find most similarities with. It's incredibly youthful, energetic, entreprenuriel and when it comes to the younger generation, liberal. While I don't doubt that the political establishment might be attempting to curtail free access to the internet I question why It's of concern to us when America is trying to ram SOPA and other bills down our throats and when our "allies" in the mid-east region already have complex and functioning systems in place to regulate and censore access to foreign websites. I've spent many years living in the mid east and I just can't shake off the unmistaken feeling of an attempt to sway the public into thinking Iran is a monolithic demonic institute.

nextparadigms 15y ago
People should see more videos and images like these, before they are quick to ask for bombing them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98j0I7e5OHE&feature=youtu.be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98j0I7e5OHE&feature=youtu...
- second_side 15y ago
  Awwww.... Pretty pictures of an uptake of western culture, consumerism and aesthetics... Must be such a nice place for them. People should see more videos and images like these, before they are quick to ask for bombing them: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2a0_1185106657 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2a0_1185106657 WARNING : NSFL!!! Serious, It cannot be unseen!! Its your choice to view the link. Motivational isn't it.... You think the Iran regime is not interested in spreading and expanding its joyful way of life thoughout the world given the chance? The "incredibly youthful, energetic, entreprenuriel and when it comes to the younger generation, liberal" people of Iran deserve/need your help in overthrowing the regime (with as little blood spilt as possible) that thinks this is how society should live. You can't argue the above away with.... look they have LV scarfs and pretty girls.
  - nextparadigms 15y ago
    My point is invading a country of 70 million people should not be taken lightly, which a lot of political leaders seem to do right now. And it should certainly not be declared only by the president. The president is not a king.
  - user9756 15y ago
    So if I find a video of someone being executed in the US, that gives the world enough basis for justifying the "liberation" of the USA? Why don't you btw demand the liberation of the US? Or perhaps you think the US is "spreading and expanding its joyful way of life throughout the world"? Millions of dead civilians would disagree.
    - second_side 15y ago
      If you can find a video of recent (last 30 years) of state sponsored public short drop hanging (or any other equally barbaric) execution from the US I will demand the “liberation” of the US. Right here on the internet. And we will both have made it a better place to live for our children and our children’s children. Question, by whom would you like to be liberated? Do I think the US is "spreading and expanding its joyful way of life throughout the world"... for sure ... the video by @nextparadigms shows it clearly. Oh... you meant the aggressive post WWII US foreign policy? Afgan, Iraq, Vietnam, South Korea ... Or proxy type operations via war or CIA operations ... Afgan, Iran, Cuba, Nicaragua, East Tmor etc. Yes, the US has most definitely tried to spread its joyful view of the world, and some of these were clear crimes against humanity, some not so clear. For those that were I demand short drop public hangings for. How effective my demands are is yet to be seen. Sadly they also need to be viewed in context of global tensions and all interventions by the US have been par for the course as far as geopolitical maneuvering that all of the great powers have been doing since the dawn of history. Does it make them “right”? No it does not. Am I thankful the US is the primary power and holds a sphere control over the majority of the world? Absolutely!!! Just like Rome, the US does not really impose much on its protectorates and lets them govern as they see fit as long as they keep paying their dues, eg. Europe, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Israel, Iraq, Afgan. These areas could very well have fallen very different regimes that have records that make the US look like kittens. It’s a complex dog eat dog world, and just because you live a peaceful existence in your neck of the woods does not mean that a genghis khan is not about to ride over the hill have wipe you from history.
pooriaazimi 15y ago
Reporting the facts is not propaganda. P.S. and, as an Iranian, I can assure you the last thing I want is to be bombed.
- zerostar07 15y ago
  Selectively reporting for facts is. That is not to say that I believe this one is. Another down reported story in American media is the Russian protests.
  - shareme 15y ago
    complaining with bias is not exactly reporting fact either
mooki 15y ago
Iranians ARE youthful, energetic, entrepreneurial and liberal. That's why they're constantly trying to revolt against the ass-backwards represive government they're stuck with. It's a country of huge constrasts. There is definitely some kind of propaganda war going on to, but that doesn't mean Iran's government isn't horrible.
- cup 15y ago
  Change must come from within though. You can bet your bottom dollar that those youthful, liberal Iranians will be the first to join the resistance movement in the event of an invasion just like I'm sure many HN users and other young Americans would swell to defend their homeland if they were attacked by an equally imperialistic and foreign entity, say China or
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - mooki 15y ago
    Yeah, I'm absolutely not advocating an invasion. Best thing that can happen is a successful revolution. It seems to have been close last time so there's still hope.
    - yummyfajitas 15y ago
      I think a revolution is unlikely. I've spoken to many Iranians and had an Iranian girlfriend for a few years. One thing I realized is that they are completely brainwashed to believe that a revolution is the worst thing ever. They all take the attitude that it's better to stagnate forever with rape victims being regularly stoned than to risk a few deaths trying to change things. I think it's because they perceive the revolution and Iraq war during their childhood as horrible in a not normal way, whereas the stuff that happens currently is horrible in a normal way. Combine this with a huge amount of nationalism, and you also realize they won't work with those who should be natural allies. For example, Iran's long oppressed Kurds/Balochs might join in a revolution if they get independence, but the Persian nationalists (read: those freedom-seeking youths you see in the media) would never consider this. So no, I don't see a revolution happening.
bruce511 15y ago
From the article: >> A conservative cleric blogger based in the holy Shiite city of Qum, Ahmad Najimi, said in his blog last week that the government was paying hackers hired in the network known as the "Cyber Army" the equivalent of $7 per hour to swarm the Web with positive comments about the Islamic Republic and post negative comments against dissidents. So we ask ourselves, are comments here that are mitigating Iran's actions here - or ones that divert the conversation to say SOPA - getting paid by the hour? but wait - if we assume _all_ positive comments are paid for, then we're denying those that are unpaid to voice valid counter arguments. Oh my head, my poor head....
- fistofjohnwayne 15y ago
  Generally those commenters stick to Iran-themed websites and blogs but I wouldn't be shocked to find them posting here. You should also consider how often SOPA is being brought up needlessly in conversations across the entire web. I doubt the rate is much different in discussions involving Iran. The causal link is more likely to be "a story discussing Internet censorship of any kind."
- nextparadigms 15y ago
  That happens in China, too. When there's a new policy or law, they pay thousands of people to write positive comments about it.
  - astrodust 15y ago
    I love China. I think they have the best human rights record in the world!
    - pyre 15y ago
      They pay for positive comments, not sarcastic ones. Don't expect a check in the mail... ;-)
JonnieCache 15y ago
>a 'propaganda war' much akin to the one we saw before Iraq and Afghanistan is slowly coming to life. Yep, it's been going on for a month or two now. Preparing the public for another brilliant war that we can definitely afford. I'm fairly sure we (the US and UK, probably the french) are already at war with iran already, in the form of the various cyber attacks, assassinations and embassy closures that've been in the news in recent months. Here's a couple of articles on the subject, from the point of view of the war-weary and somewhat disbelieving british left. Trust me, we can't fucking believe they're doing it again either. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/06/iran-war-drums-terry-jones http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/06/iran-war... http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/07/iran-war-already-begun http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/07/iran-war...
- avar 15y ago
  Preparing the public for another brilliant war that we can definitely afford. I'm going to assume that by "afford" you mean monetarily. In that case how do you know it can't be afforded? At least the Iraq war was arguably mainly about resource acquisition , have there been any studies about how cost-effective that resource acquisition is in the long term? The wars cost billions of dollars, but the invading forces now have control over billions of dollars of oil resources as well. Has anyone done a realistic cost analysis on how those two stack up against each other?
  - cmillllllls 15y ago
    Although that may be correct, have gas or oil prices dropped here as a result? No, they went up (oil companies use "wars" and "storms" and other cracks in the road to say "lets let Opec profit another 20% this year bob" With that + the fact that the US is in debt of $16 trillion + and that number keeps growing, I think we can't afford it.
  - MichaelSalib 15y ago
    Um, the US does not "have control over billions of dollars of [Iraqi] oil resources" now. Why would you think it did?
user9756 15y ago
The problem with Iran is not its government, people, religion or culture. It's the fact that Iran is independent from the US and the West in general (but also from the East; "neither West or East"). For those who are curios about Iran, events occurring there, and its relationship with the US (from a "non-mainstream"/"non-demonising" perspective), I can recommend: - http://www.raceforiran.com/ http://www.raceforiran.com/ - http://www.iranaffairs.com/iran_affairs/ http://www.iranaffairs.com/iran_affairs/ - http://mideastreality.blogspot.com/ http://mideastreality.blogspot.com/ - http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/ http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/ - http://www.bibijon.org/iranimage/ http://www.bibijon.org/iranimage/ Those who have questions regarding the 2009 elections: - http://brillwebsite.com/writings/iran2009election.html http://brillwebsite.com/writings/iran2009election.html (he is also a frequent visitor to the "race for Iran" blog)
xster 15y ago
Nothing new here... more of the same since many decades. Check http://www.amazon.com/Overthrow-Americas-Century-Regime-Change/dp/0805078614 http://www.amazon.com/Overthrow-Americas-Century-Regime-Chan... and now Libya and Syria while ignoring the most likely more oppressive US ally Saudi Arabia.
mohsen 15y ago
After having a long conversation with a close friend in Iran, and also reading this post guess post on Juan Cole's blog [ http://www.juancole.com/2012/01/jahanpour-as-us-and-iran-confront-each-other-where-is-the-diplomacy.html http://www.juancole.com/2012/01/jahanpour-as-us-and-iran-con... ] I'm starting to realize more and more that the way we have treated Iran since Carter (read: 1979 revolution) is completely wrong. Instead of finding ways to pressure the Iranian government we are hurting the Iranian people. The sanctions we place on Iran hurts the Iranian people and their small businesses much more than the Iranian government and it's abundant(for now) oil resource. Obama really tried at first to bring in a different approach. First off he understood the structure of power in Iran and so wrote a letter to Khamenei directly. Then he tried to talk to the Iranian people in parallel by sending the message for Norooz (Iranian New Year). Next he offered to sit and talk with the Iranians without any preconditions, but what messed everything up for him was the Iranian elections. That was (read: is) a big pile of mess that no one really knew (read: knows) how to deal with.
neilk 15y ago
You're right and wrong. The White House probably has not called up the WSJ and said to print articles against Iran. But there is an consensus forming among the USA's elites, that Iran is the next enemy that needs to be dealt with. In this environment, Iran becomes more interesting to the editors of the WSJ and other agenda-setting newspapers, like the New York Times. And, they will find that government agencies are far more likely to help with stories about Iranian oppression. That said: the Iranian government is really making it easy to write such stories. SOPA is horrible, in that it upsets the balance between free speech and copyright holders. Installing cameras in every internet café, with the open objective of enabling the secret police to control everyone's thoughts and actions, all the time? I think that's in a different class of behavior. (Although, the USA is sadly inching in the direction of authoritarianism and unlimited government surveillance, there's still a big, big difference.) So let's be skeptical of a rush to a conclusion that we must bomb the evildoers, but neither should we be complacent about Iranian internal oppression.
snowwrestler 15y ago
It's of concern to us because we like the parts of Iranian society you mention, and we'd like them to succeed. This action will most likely harm them.

by cup 15y ago

nextparadigms 15y ago

People should see more videos and images like these, before they are quick to ask for bombing them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98j0I7e5OHE&feature=youtu.be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98j0I7e5OHE&feature=youtu...

second_side 15y ago
Awwww.... Pretty pictures of an uptake of western culture, consumerism and aesthetics... Must be such a nice place for them. People should see more videos and images like these, before they are quick to ask for bombing them: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2a0_1185106657 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2a0_1185106657 WARNING : NSFL!!! Serious, It cannot be unseen!! Its your choice to view the link. Motivational isn't it.... You think the Iran regime is not interested in spreading and expanding its joyful way of life thoughout the world given the chance? The "incredibly youthful, energetic, entreprenuriel and when it comes to the younger generation, liberal" people of Iran deserve/need your help in overthrowing the regime (with as little blood spilt as possible) that thinks this is how society should live. You can't argue the above away with.... look they have LV scarfs and pretty girls.
- nextparadigms 15y ago
  My point is invading a country of 70 million people should not be taken lightly, which a lot of political leaders seem to do right now. And it should certainly not be declared only by the president. The president is not a king.
- user9756 15y ago
  So if I find a video of someone being executed in the US, that gives the world enough basis for justifying the "liberation" of the USA? Why don't you btw demand the liberation of the US? Or perhaps you think the US is "spreading and expanding its joyful way of life throughout the world"? Millions of dead civilians would disagree.
  - second_side 15y ago
    If you can find a video of recent (last 30 years) of state sponsored public short drop hanging (or any other equally barbaric) execution from the US I will demand the “liberation” of the US. Right here on the internet. And we will both have made it a better place to live for our children and our children’s children. Question, by whom would you like to be liberated? Do I think the US is "spreading and expanding its joyful way of life throughout the world"... for sure ... the video by @nextparadigms shows it clearly. Oh... you meant the aggressive post WWII US foreign policy? Afgan, Iraq, Vietnam, South Korea ... Or proxy type operations via war or CIA operations ... Afgan, Iran, Cuba, Nicaragua, East Tmor etc. Yes, the US has most definitely tried to spread its joyful view of the world, and some of these were clear crimes against humanity, some not so clear. For those that were I demand short drop public hangings for. How effective my demands are is yet to be seen. Sadly they also need to be viewed in context of global tensions and all interventions by the US have been par for the course as far as geopolitical maneuvering that all of the great powers have been doing since the dawn of history. Does it make them “right”? No it does not. Am I thankful the US is the primary power and holds a sphere control over the majority of the world? Absolutely!!! Just like Rome, the US does not really impose much on its protectorates and lets them govern as they see fit as long as they keep paying their dues, eg. Europe, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Israel, Iraq, Afgan. These areas could very well have fallen very different regimes that have records that make the US look like kittens. It’s a complex dog eat dog world, and just because you live a peaceful existence in your neck of the woods does not mean that a genghis khan is not about to ride over the hill have wipe you from history.

pooriaazimi 15y ago

Reporting the facts is not propaganda. P.S. and, as an Iranian, I can assure you the last thing I want is to be bombed.

zerostar07 15y ago
Selectively reporting for facts is. That is not to say that I believe this one is. Another down reported story in American media is the Russian protests.
- shareme 15y ago
  complaining with bias is not exactly reporting fact either

mooki 15y ago

Iranians ARE youthful, energetic, entrepreneurial and liberal. That's why they're constantly trying to revolt against the ass-backwards represive government they're stuck with. It's a country of huge constrasts. There is definitely some kind of propaganda war going on to, but that doesn't mean Iran's government isn't horrible.

cup 15y ago
Change must come from within though. You can bet your bottom dollar that those youthful, liberal Iranians will be the first to join the resistance movement in the event of an invasion just like I'm sure many HN users and other young Americans would swell to defend their homeland if they were attacked by an equally imperialistic and foreign entity, say China or
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- mooki 15y ago
  Yeah, I'm absolutely not advocating an invasion. Best thing that can happen is a successful revolution. It seems to have been close last time so there's still hope.
  - yummyfajitas 15y ago
    I think a revolution is unlikely. I've spoken to many Iranians and had an Iranian girlfriend for a few years. One thing I realized is that they are completely brainwashed to believe that a revolution is the worst thing ever. They all take the attitude that it's better to stagnate forever with rape victims being regularly stoned than to risk a few deaths trying to change things. I think it's because they perceive the revolution and Iraq war during their childhood as horrible in a not normal way, whereas the stuff that happens currently is horrible in a normal way. Combine this with a huge amount of nationalism, and you also realize they won't work with those who should be natural allies. For example, Iran's long oppressed Kurds/Balochs might join in a revolution if they get independence, but the Persian nationalists (read: those freedom-seeking youths you see in the media) would never consider this. So no, I don't see a revolution happening.

bruce511 15y ago

From the article: >> A conservative cleric blogger based in the holy Shiite city of Qum, Ahmad Najimi, said in his blog last week that the government was paying hackers hired in the network known as the "Cyber Army" the equivalent of $7 per hour to swarm the Web with positive comments about the Islamic Republic and post negative comments against dissidents. So we ask ourselves, are comments here that are mitigating Iran's actions here - or ones that divert the conversation to say SOPA - getting paid by the hour? but wait - if we assume _all_ positive comments are paid for, then we're denying those that are unpaid to voice valid counter arguments. Oh my head, my poor head....

fistofjohnwayne 15y ago
Generally those commenters stick to Iran-themed websites and blogs but I wouldn't be shocked to find them posting here. You should also consider how often SOPA is being brought up needlessly in conversations across the entire web. I doubt the rate is much different in discussions involving Iran. The causal link is more likely to be "a story discussing Internet censorship of any kind."
nextparadigms 15y ago
That happens in China, too. When there's a new policy or law, they pay thousands of people to write positive comments about it.
- astrodust 15y ago
  I love China. I think they have the best human rights record in the world!
  - pyre 15y ago
    They pay for positive comments, not sarcastic ones. Don't expect a check in the mail... ;-)

JonnieCache 15y ago

>a 'propaganda war' much akin to the one we saw before Iraq and Afghanistan is slowly coming to life. Yep, it's been going on for a month or two now. Preparing the public for another brilliant war that we can definitely afford. I'm fairly sure we (the US and UK, probably the french) are already at war with iran already, in the form of the various cyber attacks, assassinations and embassy closures that've been in the news in recent months. Here's a couple of articles on the subject, from the point of view of the war-weary and somewhat disbelieving british left. Trust me, we can't fucking believe they're doing it again either. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/06/iran-war-drums-terry-jones http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/06/iran-war... http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/07/iran-war-already-begun http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/07/iran-war...

avar 15y ago
Preparing the public for another brilliant war that we can definitely afford. I'm going to assume that by "afford" you mean monetarily. In that case how do you know it can't be afforded? At least the Iraq war was arguably mainly about resource acquisition , have there been any studies about how cost-effective that resource acquisition is in the long term? The wars cost billions of dollars, but the invading forces now have control over billions of dollars of oil resources as well. Has anyone done a realistic cost analysis on how those two stack up against each other?
- cmillllllls 15y ago
  Although that may be correct, have gas or oil prices dropped here as a result? No, they went up (oil companies use "wars" and "storms" and other cracks in the road to say "lets let Opec profit another 20% this year bob" With that + the fact that the US is in debt of $16 trillion + and that number keeps growing, I think we can't afford it.
- MichaelSalib 15y ago
  Um, the US does not "have control over billions of dollars of [Iraqi] oil resources" now. Why would you think it did?

user9756 15y ago

The problem with Iran is not its government, people, religion or culture. It's the fact that Iran is independent from the US and the West in general (but also from the East; "neither West or East"). For those who are curios about Iran, events occurring there, and its relationship with the US (from a "non-mainstream"/"non-demonising" perspective), I can recommend: - http://www.raceforiran.com/ http://www.raceforiran.com/ - http://www.iranaffairs.com/iran_affairs/ http://www.iranaffairs.com/iran_affairs/ - http://mideastreality.blogspot.com/ http://mideastreality.blogspot.com/ - http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/ http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/ - http://www.bibijon.org/iranimage/ http://www.bibijon.org/iranimage/ Those who have questions regarding the 2009 elections: - http://brillwebsite.com/writings/iran2009election.html http://brillwebsite.com/writings/iran2009election.html (he is also a frequent visitor to the "race for Iran" blog)

xster 15y ago

Nothing new here... more of the same since many decades. Check http://www.amazon.com/Overthrow-Americas-Century-Regime-Change/dp/0805078614 http://www.amazon.com/Overthrow-Americas-Century-Regime-Chan... and now Libya and Syria while ignoring the most likely more oppressive US ally Saudi Arabia.

mohsen 15y ago

After having a long conversation with a close friend in Iran, and also reading this post guess post on Juan Cole's blog [ http://www.juancole.com/2012/01/jahanpour-as-us-and-iran-confront-each-other-where-is-the-diplomacy.html http://www.juancole.com/2012/01/jahanpour-as-us-and-iran-con... ] I'm starting to realize more and more that the way we have treated Iran since Carter (read: 1979 revolution) is completely wrong. Instead of finding ways to pressure the Iranian government we are hurting the Iranian people. The sanctions we place on Iran hurts the Iranian people and their small businesses much more than the Iranian government and it's abundant(for now) oil resource. Obama really tried at first to bring in a different approach. First off he understood the structure of power in Iran and so wrote a letter to Khamenei directly. Then he tried to talk to the Iranian people in parallel by sending the message for Norooz (Iranian New Year). Next he offered to sit and talk with the Iranians without any preconditions, but what messed everything up for him was the Iranian elections. That was (read: is) a big pile of mess that no one really knew (read: knows) how to deal with.

neilk 15y ago

You're right and wrong. The White House probably has not called up the WSJ and said to print articles against Iran. But there is an consensus forming among the USA's elites, that Iran is the next enemy that needs to be dealt with. In this environment, Iran becomes more interesting to the editors of the WSJ and other agenda-setting newspapers, like the New York Times. And, they will find that government agencies are far more likely to help with stories about Iranian oppression. That said: the Iranian government is really making it easy to write such stories. SOPA is horrible, in that it upsets the balance between free speech and copyright holders. Installing cameras in every internet café, with the open objective of enabling the secret police to control everyone's thoughts and actions, all the time? I think that's in a different class of behavior. (Although, the USA is sadly inching in the direction of authoritarianism and unlimited government surveillance, there's still a big, big difference.) So let's be skeptical of a rush to a conclusion that we must bomb the evildoers, but neither should we be complacent about Iranian internal oppression.

snowwrestler 15y ago

It's of concern to us because we like the parts of Iranian society you mention, and we'd like them to succeed. This action will most likely harm them.