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I don’t think you’re expecting too much ultimately. But too much immediately. People have try things and fail at them to really learn from them. That takes tim

I don’t think you’re expecting too much ultimately. But too much immediately. People have try things and fail at them to really learn from them. That takes time. It’s hard to watch people go down the wrong path and know where it will lead, but the role we (others) need to play is to let them try and fail, help teach them to introspect on the experiences they have, and how to path correct afterwards. I agree about introspection though. I see it as a lack in parenting same as the social skills and connecting with others that the article discusses.

lordfrito 4y ago
I get the "too much immediately" comment. Solutions take time. As I said, it's the trends that are troubling (fixing things requires the 1st derivative changing direction). I didn't have any of the adult guidance you talk about in my life. Without that kind of support system, the life stakes you're playing with are very high. And that's the lens I see things through, there are still a lot of kids without good support, and this line of thinking can spell a lifetime of missed opportunities and unhappiness for them. You're 100% correct that with good guidance the kids will eventually navigate their away from it. Hopefully that level of support is a lot more common than what I personally experienced.
- solarmist 4y ago
  I fully agree with you there. I think we’re going to have very fucked up generations for the next 50+ years as a result. I’m quite worried. I didn’t either. And it’s taken me into my 40s to correct many of those issues myself. I got lucky in that I had childhood trauma and neglect which forced me to be self sufficient, but many people don’t have that even.
  - lordfrito 4y ago
    Interesting. Nearly all of the entrepreneurial / keep-trying successful people in my life have a common experience of overcoming childhood trauma. It's a very formative force and leads to an endless drive to improve things. "Bad times breed good men" kind of thing. edit: I wouldn't wish it on anyone! People who have experienced trauma become hyper vigilant. That skill, combined with a scientific/engineering mindset, gives you deep insight into finding the roots of problems, and the drive to find solutions, and motivation to apply them. I've found its my superpower (when applied correctly). It takes a lot of introspection. And critical thinking skills. Which is why I guess that's why so many parents bemoan the loss of critical thinking skills. The digital era does not encourage kids to think. It encourages them to ask a the internet for a solution (google / peers on social media). If the solution doesn't work out it's easy not to blame yourself, but rather the "system". When your drive is to label yourself correctly to fit in, it makes it easy to avoid having to critically think about the "why" behind your choices. Focusing on identity is a new ruling priesthood of sorts: you must not question the teaching, and should get angry at those who don't share your faith.
    - solarmist 4y ago
      Yes, the term I think you're looking for here is self-efficacy. "This is my problem, so I need to find a way through or around it, with or without help." See, I had the opposite problem. I was hyper-vigilant AND hyper-independent, so I failed to develop my skills to connect with others. I have repeatedly reached the limits of my ability to do things independently. And the first step there was to overcome my childhood trauma (emotional neglect, which left me woefully underdeveloped in my ability to feel or understand emotions, and trust issues) which prevented me from trusting or being able to accept help from others. I could help others but couldn't accept help from others, so I was always overloaded and cut off, so people didn't even know or realize I was struggling. I'm now trying to learn how to build a network and go beyond what I can accomplish alone. This is a huge challenge in itself.
      - lordfrito 4y ago
        Same problem. My main problem now isn't the trauma, but the fact I've been very successful on my own without help for so long. Essentially every time I got let down, I doubled down on independence and worked harder. And it kept working. Now I'm 51 and well established so I don't need anyone to provide anything, probably for the rest of my life. What I never found along the way are the skills to share, let alone enjoy, what I've built with someone else. Deep inside I just see other humans as potential attack vectors. But I keep trying! The remaining parts should be easier, I hope. Thanks for the chat. And best of luck to your journey as well.
        solarmist 4y ago
        I got lucky here. My wife was emotionally broken when I met her (her mom died from cancer in HS, and then her family started scapegoating her father), so I could care for her without much reciprocation. And over the last ten years, as she's healed, I've learned to address my issues one by one to the point where I'm now on neutral ground emotionally. I can share and enjoy what I have with her, but we both lack the skills to go beyond the two of us. > Deep inside I just see other humans as potential attack vectors. This is the problem. All human interaction is built on trust, empathy, and authenticity. Without being able to make progress there, no lasting connection can be achieved. Because trust is so fundamental to being human, I see the entire effort to establish zero-trust anything as a fundamentally misguided and doomed-to-failure activity. If you want to change your point of view you'd need to overcome trust issues and the easiest way of doing that is by identifying and coming to terms with the source of your trust issues. Brute forcing it as I did (with my wife) was the emotional version of repeatedly getting full-body road rash over and over again (for both of us).

lordfrito 4y ago

I get the "too much immediately" comment. Solutions take time. As I said, it's the trends that are troubling (fixing things requires the 1st derivative changing direction). I didn't have any of the adult guidance you talk about in my life. Without that kind of support system, the life stakes you're playing with are very high. And that's the lens I see things through, there are still a lot of kids without good support, and this line of thinking can spell a lifetime of missed opportunities and unhappiness for them. You're 100% correct that with good guidance the kids will eventually navigate their away from it. Hopefully that level of support is a lot more common than what I personally experienced.

solarmist 4y ago
I fully agree with you there. I think we’re going to have very fucked up generations for the next 50+ years as a result. I’m quite worried. I didn’t either. And it’s taken me into my 40s to correct many of those issues myself. I got lucky in that I had childhood trauma and neglect which forced me to be self sufficient, but many people don’t have that even.
- lordfrito 4y ago
  Interesting. Nearly all of the entrepreneurial / keep-trying successful people in my life have a common experience of overcoming childhood trauma. It's a very formative force and leads to an endless drive to improve things. "Bad times breed good men" kind of thing. edit: I wouldn't wish it on anyone! People who have experienced trauma become hyper vigilant. That skill, combined with a scientific/engineering mindset, gives you deep insight into finding the roots of problems, and the drive to find solutions, and motivation to apply them. I've found its my superpower (when applied correctly). It takes a lot of introspection. And critical thinking skills. Which is why I guess that's why so many parents bemoan the loss of critical thinking skills. The digital era does not encourage kids to think. It encourages them to ask a the internet for a solution (google / peers on social media). If the solution doesn't work out it's easy not to blame yourself, but rather the "system". When your drive is to label yourself correctly to fit in, it makes it easy to avoid having to critically think about the "why" behind your choices. Focusing on identity is a new ruling priesthood of sorts: you must not question the teaching, and should get angry at those who don't share your faith.
  - solarmist 4y ago
    Yes, the term I think you're looking for here is self-efficacy. "This is my problem, so I need to find a way through or around it, with or without help." See, I had the opposite problem. I was hyper-vigilant AND hyper-independent, so I failed to develop my skills to connect with others. I have repeatedly reached the limits of my ability to do things independently. And the first step there was to overcome my childhood trauma (emotional neglect, which left me woefully underdeveloped in my ability to feel or understand emotions, and trust issues) which prevented me from trusting or being able to accept help from others. I could help others but couldn't accept help from others, so I was always overloaded and cut off, so people didn't even know or realize I was struggling. I'm now trying to learn how to build a network and go beyond what I can accomplish alone. This is a huge challenge in itself.
    - lordfrito 4y ago
      Same problem. My main problem now isn't the trauma, but the fact I've been very successful on my own without help for so long. Essentially every time I got let down, I doubled down on independence and worked harder. And it kept working. Now I'm 51 and well established so I don't need anyone to provide anything, probably for the rest of my life. What I never found along the way are the skills to share, let alone enjoy, what I've built with someone else. Deep inside I just see other humans as potential attack vectors. But I keep trying! The remaining parts should be easier, I hope. Thanks for the chat. And best of luck to your journey as well.
      - solarmist 4y ago
        I got lucky here. My wife was emotionally broken when I met her (her mom died from cancer in HS, and then her family started scapegoating her father), so I could care for her without much reciprocation. And over the last ten years, as she's healed, I've learned to address my issues one by one to the point where I'm now on neutral ground emotionally. I can share and enjoy what I have with her, but we both lack the skills to go beyond the two of us. > Deep inside I just see other humans as potential attack vectors. This is the problem. All human interaction is built on trust, empathy, and authenticity. Without being able to make progress there, no lasting connection can be achieved. Because trust is so fundamental to being human, I see the entire effort to establish zero-trust anything as a fundamentally misguided and doomed-to-failure activity. If you want to change your point of view you'd need to overcome trust issues and the easiest way of doing that is by identifying and coming to terms with the source of your trust issues. Brute forcing it as I did (with my wife) was the emotional version of repeatedly getting full-body road rash over and over again (for both of us).