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> The modern version just feels like a weird exercise in box-collecting. The few teenage women in my family I interact with are obsessed with ticking all right

> The modern version just feels like a weird exercise in box-collecting. The few teenage women in my family I interact with are obsessed with ticking all right boxes. I get the impression they don't have any idea what they are, but they are desperate to find it, label it, and put it in a box so they can tell their friends. Preferably a trendy box. The anger they have built up around names/labels and which are the right/wrong ones appears deeply unhealthy to me. It's one thing for career woman to talk about systemic sexism in male dominated professional spheres. It's another thing to hear a 20 year old college freshman with practically no life experience passionately parrot what they've heard about wage disparity, glass ceilings, and other things they have literally zero direct personal experience with. You can't fix things by discussing "problems experienced in theory", you can only have meaningful dialog about fixing things when you can discuss "problems experienced in practice". I feel it's deeply unhealthy for this new generation, and I fear that we're facing some sort of epidemic of mental illnesses in the next decade or two. In some ways I think we're already there. I agree that search for identity is a search for meaning. And finding meaning takes a lot of trial and error (the trials being the hard part and the work she refers to). I've changed a lot in my 30 years as an adult, always for the better I think.

solarmist 4y ago
I think you’re being too harsh here. Everyone learns by mimicry. Understanding the why always comes after. Even if you know the why before you won’t understand it deeply until you try the thing. You should reflect on it after you try it on, but coping options of those around you is perfectly natural and normal, but at some point you need to reflect if those attitudes reflect your reality and experience.
- lordfrito 4y ago
  Yeah I have a tendency to be harsh/blunt, I'm mainly talking about the troubling trend I'm seeing. I'm glad everyone is OK to pursue whatever internal dialog and search for meaning they want, in a compassionate world, wherever it leads them. But it seems that what these kids lack is the ability to introspect and reality-check their experience. The label is all that it's about. Yes I'm talking about young adults. I just don't ever remember being that way. When I was a kid I'd argue about why communism or anarchy (being a punk) was the way to go. But I wouldn't get so animated about it with other adults, employers, etc. If this behavior is normal, I guess maybe I expect too much from others. As I said, I don't like the trend. All I see is anger and unhappiness in youth. It's no wonder they're staying home and getting high.
  - solarmist 4y ago
    I don’t think you’re expecting too much ultimately. But too much immediately. People have try things and fail at them to really learn from them. That takes time. It’s hard to watch people go down the wrong path and know where it will lead, but the role we (others) need to play is to let them try and fail, help teach them to introspect on the experiences they have, and how to path correct afterwards. I agree about introspection though. I see it as a lack in parenting same as the social skills and connecting with others that the article discusses.
    - lordfrito 4y ago
      I get the "too much immediately" comment. Solutions take time. As I said, it's the trends that are troubling (fixing things requires the 1st derivative changing direction). I didn't have any of the adult guidance you talk about in my life. Without that kind of support system, the life stakes you're playing with are very high. And that's the lens I see things through, there are still a lot of kids without good support, and this line of thinking can spell a lifetime of missed opportunities and unhappiness for them. You're 100% correct that with good guidance the kids will eventually navigate their away from it. Hopefully that level of support is a lot more common than what I personally experienced.
      - solarmist 4y ago
        I fully agree with you there. I think we’re going to have very fucked up generations for the next 50+ years as a result. I’m quite worried. I didn’t either. And it’s taken me into my 40s to correct many of those issues myself. I got lucky in that I had childhood trauma and neglect which forced me to be self sufficient, but many people don’t have that even.
        lordfrito 4y ago
        Interesting. Nearly all of the entrepreneurial / keep-trying successful people in my life have a common experience of overcoming childhood trauma. It's a very formative force and leads to an endless drive to improve things. "Bad times breed good men" kind of thing. edit: I wouldn't wish it on anyone! People who have experienced trauma become hyper vigilant. That skill, combined with a scientific/engineering mindset, gives you deep insight into finding the roots of problems, and the drive to find solutions, and motivation to apply them. I've found its my superpower (when applied correctly). It takes a lot of introspection. And critical thinking skills. Which is why I guess that's why so many parents bemoan the loss of critical thinking skills. The digital era does not encourage kids to think. It encourages them to ask a the internet for a solution (google / peers on social media). If the solution doesn't work out it's easy not to blame yourself, but rather the "system". When your drive is to label yourself correctly to fit in, it makes it easy to avoid having to critically think about the "why" behind your choices. Focusing on identity is a new ruling priesthood of sorts: you must not question the teaching, and should get angry at those who don't share your faith.

solarmist 4y ago

I think you’re being too harsh here. Everyone learns by mimicry. Understanding the why always comes after. Even if you know the why before you won’t understand it deeply until you try the thing. You should reflect on it after you try it on, but coping options of those around you is perfectly natural and normal, but at some point you need to reflect if those attitudes reflect your reality and experience.

lordfrito 4y ago
Yeah I have a tendency to be harsh/blunt, I'm mainly talking about the troubling trend I'm seeing. I'm glad everyone is OK to pursue whatever internal dialog and search for meaning they want, in a compassionate world, wherever it leads them. But it seems that what these kids lack is the ability to introspect and reality-check their experience. The label is all that it's about. Yes I'm talking about young adults. I just don't ever remember being that way. When I was a kid I'd argue about why communism or anarchy (being a punk) was the way to go. But I wouldn't get so animated about it with other adults, employers, etc. If this behavior is normal, I guess maybe I expect too much from others. As I said, I don't like the trend. All I see is anger and unhappiness in youth. It's no wonder they're staying home and getting high.
- solarmist 4y ago
  I don’t think you’re expecting too much ultimately. But too much immediately. People have try things and fail at them to really learn from them. That takes time. It’s hard to watch people go down the wrong path and know where it will lead, but the role we (others) need to play is to let them try and fail, help teach them to introspect on the experiences they have, and how to path correct afterwards. I agree about introspection though. I see it as a lack in parenting same as the social skills and connecting with others that the article discusses.
  - lordfrito 4y ago
    I get the "too much immediately" comment. Solutions take time. As I said, it's the trends that are troubling (fixing things requires the 1st derivative changing direction). I didn't have any of the adult guidance you talk about in my life. Without that kind of support system, the life stakes you're playing with are very high. And that's the lens I see things through, there are still a lot of kids without good support, and this line of thinking can spell a lifetime of missed opportunities and unhappiness for them. You're 100% correct that with good guidance the kids will eventually navigate their away from it. Hopefully that level of support is a lot more common than what I personally experienced.
    - solarmist 4y ago
      I fully agree with you there. I think we’re going to have very fucked up generations for the next 50+ years as a result. I’m quite worried. I didn’t either. And it’s taken me into my 40s to correct many of those issues myself. I got lucky in that I had childhood trauma and neglect which forced me to be self sufficient, but many people don’t have that even.
      - lordfrito 4y ago
        Interesting. Nearly all of the entrepreneurial / keep-trying successful people in my life have a common experience of overcoming childhood trauma. It's a very formative force and leads to an endless drive to improve things. "Bad times breed good men" kind of thing. edit: I wouldn't wish it on anyone! People who have experienced trauma become hyper vigilant. That skill, combined with a scientific/engineering mindset, gives you deep insight into finding the roots of problems, and the drive to find solutions, and motivation to apply them. I've found its my superpower (when applied correctly). It takes a lot of introspection. And critical thinking skills. Which is why I guess that's why so many parents bemoan the loss of critical thinking skills. The digital era does not encourage kids to think. It encourages them to ask a the internet for a solution (google / peers on social media). If the solution doesn't work out it's easy not to blame yourself, but rather the "system". When your drive is to label yourself correctly to fit in, it makes it easy to avoid having to critically think about the "why" behind your choices. Focusing on identity is a new ruling priesthood of sorts: you must not question the teaching, and should get angry at those who don't share your faith.