3 ms·

The nature of something that has an inelastic demand, like guns or drugs (for very different reasons) is that by increasing the scope of regulated exchange or o

The nature of something that has an inelastic demand, like guns or drugs (for very different reasons) is that by increasing the scope of regulated exchange or outright bans, you just create pressure for creativity and innovation to solve the problem that it's "too hard to make at home". Yes, regulating ammo will make it harder for the average person to access. But, it will also drastically increase the amount of people experimenting with making powder at home and/or develop novel solutions to weapons making that are even harder to control, like very high power air rifles or electrically driven railguns. The pressure for this kind of innovation currently doesn't really exist, because ammunition is readily accessible. If we want to start regulating it, we have to acknowledge that we may be creating pressure to develop a future where alternative solutions that can't be easily controlled have flooded the black market. Ultimately, bullet control is the same problem as gun control. It's treating a symptom rather than the disease. Since the symptom of gun violence is not an existential threat to our society, it absolutely seems like a waste of effort and political capital that should instead be targeted at the root reason for eruptions of deadly violence, whatever the tools.

notch656c 4y ago
>you just create pressure for creativity and innovation to solve the problem that it's "too hard to make at home". As shown by "what about ammo" guide by IvanTheTroll et al, by which europeans are producing 9mm ammo economically at scale with completely unregulated components. Europeans trivially have a gun and full magazines of modern ammo within a couple weeks never leaving the Schengen area and without any black market interaction nor permits/licenses.
- closewith 4y ago
  And yet it hasn't emerged as a problem, because the friction and potential legal outcomes make home made firearms undesirable.
  - notch656c 4y ago
    It's not a problem in the sense organized crime buys manufactured guns with ease and the people making these weapons are likely primarily hobbyists or people merely seeking self defense unconnected to larger organizations.
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    That's half the picture. The other half is that the average European is less motivated toward violence or suicide than, say, the average American - and is therefore less motivated toward acquiring the tools for violence or suicide, by whatever means necessary. Basically: it's the intersection of ease v. motivation that's at play, not just the ease alone. Once that's identified, it becomes immediately obvious that there's a whole cornucopia of options besides trying to minimize ease (and failing, due to technological advances making it easier to sidestep artificial obstacles - 3D printing being the topical example).
hnlmorg 4y ago
The goal of gun control (et al) isn’t to eradicate the problem entirely but rather to reduce its effects substantially by making it harder. This has been proven a successful approach in a multitude of countries. Now I’m not disagreeing that you also need to solve the other side of the problem but it’s not an either / or scenario. You can tackle the problem from both sides.

notch656c 4y ago

>you just create pressure for creativity and innovation to solve the problem that it's "too hard to make at home". As shown by "what about ammo" guide by IvanTheTroll et al, by which europeans are producing 9mm ammo economically at scale with completely unregulated components. Europeans trivially have a gun and full magazines of modern ammo within a couple weeks never leaving the Schengen area and without any black market interaction nor permits/licenses.

closewith 4y ago
And yet it hasn't emerged as a problem, because the friction and potential legal outcomes make home made firearms undesirable.
- notch656c 4y ago
  It's not a problem in the sense organized crime buys manufactured guns with ease and the people making these weapons are likely primarily hobbyists or people merely seeking self defense unconnected to larger organizations.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  That's half the picture. The other half is that the average European is less motivated toward violence or suicide than, say, the average American - and is therefore less motivated toward acquiring the tools for violence or suicide, by whatever means necessary. Basically: it's the intersection of ease v. motivation that's at play, not just the ease alone. Once that's identified, it becomes immediately obvious that there's a whole cornucopia of options besides trying to minimize ease (and failing, due to technological advances making it easier to sidestep artificial obstacles - 3D printing being the topical example).

hnlmorg 4y ago

The goal of gun control (et al) isn’t to eradicate the problem entirely but rather to reduce its effects substantially by making it harder. This has been proven a successful approach in a multitude of countries. Now I’m not disagreeing that you also need to solve the other side of the problem but it’s not an either / or scenario. You can tackle the problem from both sides.