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>Teslas accounted for almost 70 percent of 329 crashes in which advanced driver assistance systems were involved, as well as a majority of fatalities and seriou

by xxpor 4y ago

>Teslas accounted for almost 70 percent of 329 crashes in which advanced driver assistance systems were involved, as well as a majority of fatalities and serious injuries associated with them, the data shows. This is pretty disingenuous given that I believe Teslas have probably covered by far the most miles with an "advanced driver assistance system". The Tesla definitely screwed up here, and I'm not sure you could have prevented the initial crash, but the pile up behind it is entirely the other drivers' fault.

pugworthy 4y ago
...I'm not sure you could have prevented the initial crash, but the pile up behind it is entirely the other drivers' fault. If other drivers should have seen and avoided the pileup, then it seems reasonable that the Tesla driver should have seen the unexpected braking and overridden it. In both cases, humans failed to react fast enough to something that required active focus and fast, split-second reaction.
- xxpor 4y ago
  Expecting the person in front of you to brake suddenly is (supposed to be) a normal part of driving.
flutas 4y ago
> This is pretty disingenuous given that I believe Teslas have probably covered by far the most miles with an "advanced driver assistance system". On top of that most other manufacturers don't have telemetry about it either and instead rely on dealerships to collect that information. > The Tesla definitely screwed up here, and I'm not sure you could have prevented the initial crash, but the pile up behind it is entirely the other drivers' fault. I'm still confused about the whole situation. Police report mentions FSD v11, which is only for employees so far. FSD v11 is what makes the freeway "FSD", otherwise it's their old "we go straight in lane, maybe take exit or change lane" code...which wouldn't be FSD. So either an employee crashed with internal only versions, or the police and owner are just incompetent about what they actually have.
kryptiskt 4y ago
I doubt that Tesla is a majority, most high-end cars these days have such systems.
vel0city 4y ago
I'm not entirely convinced Teslas have had the most miles traveled with ADAS systems. ADAS systems have been around longer than Tesla has even existed. Ford had ADAS systems on the Taurus before Tesla released the Model S and had ADAS functionality available on the F-150 the year after Telsa enabled Autopilot. It might be true that Tesla does have the most miles, but I wouldn't say its a sure bet. I'd love to see some actual data on it to know instead of making the assumption.
- xxpor 4y ago
  It sounds like ADAS is a term of art from a particular regulation. Do you know if it would only cover things that include at least autosteer or does even a basic radar based cruise control count?
  - vel0city 4y ago
    This dataset for crashes in question is about the NHTSA ADAS crash data. For a while the reporting criteria was Level 1 and 2, these days its just Level 2 and above. Level 2 is adaptive cruise control + lane assist. Every Honda Accord sold today meets this standard. Tesla sold ~405,000 cars last year, far more than any other year in their history. Honda sold ~157k Accords in 2022, all with SAE Level 2 standard. Honda alone moved almost 39% of the same volume of Level 2 cars with a single one of their products and have been selling these features for quite a while. Add in all the other auto makers selling cars with Level 2 and there's more likely way more non-Teslas with SAE Level 2 autonomy on the roads than there are Teslas. I actually figured it would have been a bit bigger of a lead for Tesla, but showing that figure about Accords really made me doubt that Tesla leads in all ADAS SAE Level 2 miles traveled. Also, FWIW "advanced driver assistance system" (ADAS) is definitely a term of art which applies to a ton of technologies. Those technologies include radar-based adaptive cruise control, collision avoidance systems, advanced traction control systems, traffic sign recognition, and other technologies. The first Taurus with adaptive cruise control would be considered an SAE Level 1 autonomous car with its advanced driver assistance system. So even a car with just emergency braking technologies but otherwise an SAE Level 0 would be considered as a car with ADAS on board, even though it might only has the ultra basic cruise control.
enragedcacti 4y ago
> This is pretty disingenuous given that I believe Teslas have probably covered by far the most miles with an "advanced driver assistance system". I'm not sure that this is true given almost every Honda sold since 2019-ish (and a big proportion for years prior to that) has had ADAS features included and enabled by default, most notably Automated Emergency Braking.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by xxpor 4y ago

pugworthy 4y ago

...I'm not sure you could have prevented the initial crash, but the pile up behind it is entirely the other drivers' fault. If other drivers should have seen and avoided the pileup, then it seems reasonable that the Tesla driver should have seen the unexpected braking and overridden it. In both cases, humans failed to react fast enough to something that required active focus and fast, split-second reaction.

xxpor 4y ago
Expecting the person in front of you to brake suddenly is (supposed to be) a normal part of driving.

flutas 4y ago

> This is pretty disingenuous given that I believe Teslas have probably covered by far the most miles with an "advanced driver assistance system". On top of that most other manufacturers don't have telemetry about it either and instead rely on dealerships to collect that information. > The Tesla definitely screwed up here, and I'm not sure you could have prevented the initial crash, but the pile up behind it is entirely the other drivers' fault. I'm still confused about the whole situation. Police report mentions FSD v11, which is only for employees so far. FSD v11 is what makes the freeway "FSD", otherwise it's their old "we go straight in lane, maybe take exit or change lane" code...which wouldn't be FSD. So either an employee crashed with internal only versions, or the police and owner are just incompetent about what they actually have.

kryptiskt 4y ago

I doubt that Tesla is a majority, most high-end cars these days have such systems.

vel0city 4y ago

I'm not entirely convinced Teslas have had the most miles traveled with ADAS systems. ADAS systems have been around longer than Tesla has even existed. Ford had ADAS systems on the Taurus before Tesla released the Model S and had ADAS functionality available on the F-150 the year after Telsa enabled Autopilot. It might be true that Tesla does have the most miles, but I wouldn't say its a sure bet. I'd love to see some actual data on it to know instead of making the assumption.

xxpor 4y ago
It sounds like ADAS is a term of art from a particular regulation. Do you know if it would only cover things that include at least autosteer or does even a basic radar based cruise control count?
- vel0city 4y ago
  This dataset for crashes in question is about the NHTSA ADAS crash data. For a while the reporting criteria was Level 1 and 2, these days its just Level 2 and above. Level 2 is adaptive cruise control + lane assist. Every Honda Accord sold today meets this standard. Tesla sold ~405,000 cars last year, far more than any other year in their history. Honda sold ~157k Accords in 2022, all with SAE Level 2 standard. Honda alone moved almost 39% of the same volume of Level 2 cars with a single one of their products and have been selling these features for quite a while. Add in all the other auto makers selling cars with Level 2 and there's more likely way more non-Teslas with SAE Level 2 autonomy on the roads than there are Teslas. I actually figured it would have been a bit bigger of a lead for Tesla, but showing that figure about Accords really made me doubt that Tesla leads in all ADAS SAE Level 2 miles traveled. Also, FWIW "advanced driver assistance system" (ADAS) is definitely a term of art which applies to a ton of technologies. Those technologies include radar-based adaptive cruise control, collision avoidance systems, advanced traction control systems, traffic sign recognition, and other technologies. The first Taurus with adaptive cruise control would be considered an SAE Level 1 autonomous car with its advanced driver assistance system. So even a car with just emergency braking technologies but otherwise an SAE Level 0 would be considered as a car with ADAS on board, even though it might only has the ultra basic cruise control.

enragedcacti 4y ago

> This is pretty disingenuous given that I believe Teslas have probably covered by far the most miles with an "advanced driver assistance system". I'm not sure that this is true given almost every Honda sold since 2019-ish (and a big proportion for years prior to that) has had ADAS features included and enabled by default, most notably Automated Emergency Braking.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]