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The choice of language around firearms is always interesting. Instead of using a descriptive term like "homebuilt firearms", communications on this topic use a

The choice of language around firearms is always interesting. Instead of using a descriptive term like "homebuilt firearms", communications on this topic use an editorialized description like "ghost guns".

piyh 4y ago
One man's common sense gun control is another man's unconditional and ineffective gun grab. Probably doesn't help when Cody Wilson is selling a CNC called the Ghost Gunner.
- maxwell 4y ago
  I dismiss any argument that appeals to "common sense." It has no logical meaning.
sschueller 4y ago
Ghost just means they were not made by a registered gun maker? Aren't many guns in the US untraceable even though they have serial numbers because of the lack of a proper database? So in effect also ghost guns?
- kube-system 4y ago
  There are paper records for all dealers sales in the US, they're just not electronic. So they are traceable, it just requires manual human effort to pick up telephones and read paperwork out of a filing cabinet. Edit: although, the cheapest and easiest way for a criminal to get an "untraceable" gun in the US is probably to bust out the window of a pickup truck, steal the gun out of the glove box, and file off the serial number.
  - notch656c 4y ago
    > and file off the serial number. Which would be dumb, because the serial number can easily be recovered in a lab and is an easy 10 years in jail and way to get feds to pick up the case.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      It depends on many factors. But there's a lot of forensic techniques that could potentially be used to catch perpetrators of gun crimes. If they were smart they wouldn't do it at all.
  - sschueller 4y ago
    I read somewhere that the largest amount of "stolen" guns are police weapons. Either from theft or lost by police.
  - novok 4y ago
    I thought with the background check requirement it is essentially in a electronic DB already as far as 'person -> dealer' goes.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      The background check just verifies a person's eligibility to purchase a gun. If the background check is approved, the record of the sale is recorded on form 4473, which goes in your dealer's records. If the next day, the ATF wants to perform a trace, they call the dealer, who then has 24 hours to produce the records for them. This was a compromise at the time the law was passed to avoid "the federal government having a database of gun owners" The law requires NICS to delete records about approved transactions within 24 hours: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/25.9 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/25.9
  - Tomte 4y ago
    https://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal-bureau-of-way-too-many-guns https://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal-bureau-of-way-too-ma...
    - kube-system 4y ago
      Oh yeah, it's a lot of paperwork, because Americans buy a lot of guns. But the ATF only has to manually look up the records for dealers that are out of business. For dealers still in business, the dealer has possession of the records and must perform the lookup on request within 24 hours.
      - Tomte 4y ago
        Yes, but the point is: it's paperwork. Or microfilm work. > The National Tracing Center is not allowed to have centralized computer data. > That's been a federal law, thanks to the NRA, since 1986: No searchable database of America's gun owners. So people here have to use paper, sort through enormous stacks of forms and record books that gun stores are required to keep and to eventually turn over to the feds when requested. It's kind of like a library in the old days—but without the card catalog. They can use pictures of paper, like microfilm (they recently got the go-ahead to convert the microfilm to PDFs), as long as the pictures of paper are not searchable. You have to flip through and read. No searching by gun owner. No searching by name.
        kube-system 4y ago
        > No searching by gun owner. No searching by name. FWIW, this was entirely the point of the compromise.
- maxwell 4y ago
  Privately made firearms and in-state sales are completely legal in the United States, enshrined as an enumerated Constitutional right. No serial numbers required. Sale of firearms may be regulated if crossing state lines, hence the Gun Control Act of '68, but a federal database of firearms / firearm owners would of course be completely unconstitutional.
anonporridge 4y ago
"custom, artisanal guns"
- dr-detroit 4y ago
  [dead]
- Ancapistani 4y ago
  The word "bespoke" is pretty commonly used in that context :)
dr-detroit 4y ago
[dead]
dang 4y ago
We've deghosted the title above.
VancouverMan 4y ago
In this case, it makes sense when one is familiar with Canada's news media landscape. Ideologically, CBC has tended to be very far to the left, and over time has become even more extreme. About a year ago, a journalist who'd worked at CBC discussed the situation: https://tarahenley.substack.com/p/speaking-freely https://tarahenley.substack.com/p/speaking-freely In my opinion, CBC consistently puts out some of the lowest-quality and least-objective "news coverage" that I've seen from the major and minor news providers in Canada.

piyh 4y ago

One man's common sense gun control is another man's unconditional and ineffective gun grab. Probably doesn't help when Cody Wilson is selling a CNC called the Ghost Gunner.

maxwell 4y ago
I dismiss any argument that appeals to "common sense." It has no logical meaning.

sschueller 4y ago

Ghost just means they were not made by a registered gun maker? Aren't many guns in the US untraceable even though they have serial numbers because of the lack of a proper database? So in effect also ghost guns?

kube-system 4y ago
There are paper records for all dealers sales in the US, they're just not electronic. So they are traceable, it just requires manual human effort to pick up telephones and read paperwork out of a filing cabinet. Edit: although, the cheapest and easiest way for a criminal to get an "untraceable" gun in the US is probably to bust out the window of a pickup truck, steal the gun out of the glove box, and file off the serial number.
- notch656c 4y ago
  > and file off the serial number. Which would be dumb, because the serial number can easily be recovered in a lab and is an easy 10 years in jail and way to get feds to pick up the case.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    It depends on many factors. But there's a lot of forensic techniques that could potentially be used to catch perpetrators of gun crimes. If they were smart they wouldn't do it at all.
- sschueller 4y ago
  I read somewhere that the largest amount of "stolen" guns are police weapons. Either from theft or lost by police.
- novok 4y ago
  I thought with the background check requirement it is essentially in a electronic DB already as far as 'person -> dealer' goes.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    The background check just verifies a person's eligibility to purchase a gun. If the background check is approved, the record of the sale is recorded on form 4473, which goes in your dealer's records. If the next day, the ATF wants to perform a trace, they call the dealer, who then has 24 hours to produce the records for them. This was a compromise at the time the law was passed to avoid "the federal government having a database of gun owners" The law requires NICS to delete records about approved transactions within 24 hours: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/25.9 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/25.9
- Tomte 4y ago
  https://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal-bureau-of-way-too-many-guns https://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal-bureau-of-way-too-ma...
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Oh yeah, it's a lot of paperwork, because Americans buy a lot of guns. But the ATF only has to manually look up the records for dealers that are out of business. For dealers still in business, the dealer has possession of the records and must perform the lookup on request within 24 hours.
    - Tomte 4y ago
      Yes, but the point is: it's paperwork. Or microfilm work. > The National Tracing Center is not allowed to have centralized computer data. > That's been a federal law, thanks to the NRA, since 1986: No searchable database of America's gun owners. So people here have to use paper, sort through enormous stacks of forms and record books that gun stores are required to keep and to eventually turn over to the feds when requested. It's kind of like a library in the old days—but without the card catalog. They can use pictures of paper, like microfilm (they recently got the go-ahead to convert the microfilm to PDFs), as long as the pictures of paper are not searchable. You have to flip through and read. No searching by gun owner. No searching by name.
      - kube-system 4y ago
        > No searching by gun owner. No searching by name. FWIW, this was entirely the point of the compromise.
maxwell 4y ago
Privately made firearms and in-state sales are completely legal in the United States, enshrined as an enumerated Constitutional right. No serial numbers required. Sale of firearms may be regulated if crossing state lines, hence the Gun Control Act of '68, but a federal database of firearms / firearm owners would of course be completely unconstitutional.

anonporridge 4y ago

"custom, artisanal guns"

dr-detroit 4y ago
[dead]
Ancapistani 4y ago
The word "bespoke" is pretty commonly used in that context :)

dr-detroit 4y ago

[dead]

dang 4y ago

We've deghosted the title above.

VancouverMan 4y ago

In this case, it makes sense when one is familiar with Canada's news media landscape. Ideologically, CBC has tended to be very far to the left, and over time has become even more extreme. About a year ago, a journalist who'd worked at CBC discussed the situation: https://tarahenley.substack.com/p/speaking-freely https://tarahenley.substack.com/p/speaking-freely In my opinion, CBC consistently puts out some of the lowest-quality and least-objective "news coverage" that I've seen from the major and minor news providers in Canada.