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> some imposition of white, Western morality While I totally agree that imposition of white, Western morality is commonplace, applying it to the idea of econom

> some imposition of white, Western morality While I totally agree that imposition of white, Western morality is commonplace, applying it to the idea of economic autonomy is somewhat obscene - autonomy is universal, not culturally specific. > as determined by middle-class researchers This is a somewhat hilariously (and depressingly) circular critique given the economic barriers to entry in US education. How can the researchers be anything but middle-class if we can't even agree people should earn enough to go to / send their kids to college. > often include things like owning your own car, a private living space, private food consumption, etc. This tends to reflect local infrastructure and available amenities - which, yes, are likely governed by white Westerners, but that isn't a commentary on people needing a car for individual reasons. If the public transport is poor & my economic circumstances force me to do things I need a car to access (childcare, healthcare, work commutes), then private car ownership becomes less a cultural choice and more a local white-Western-imposed necessity. > if you are from a culture that doesn't cherish individuality so much This is the most ridiculous part - bringing up individuality here is so odd, when the whole resistance to mutual support provided by regulated living wages is about individualistic ideals of "everyone fending for themselves". > people still come from around the world and still thrive on them Citation needed. Sure, you will always find some individual who'll claim that they're "thriving", particularly if they were also subsisting in their country of origin (NY isn't the only place where people are struggling - out of the frying pan, etc.), but stating this is universally the case is obvious nonsense. Keeping in mind many such folk send income home, making their overall needs even greater.

legitster 4y ago
??? My comment is not particularly downvoted. Are you trying to draw downvotes to it? This is not something I am unfamiliar with. I did not grow up in America. I think you are putting too much of your reality on a set of numbers. Sure, housing is a lot cheaper in Romania! But it did not necessarily come with running water, or heat. Healthcare was free! If it existed for you. So you can do a heck of a lot more living in the US even without making a ton of money. I don't know what you are going on about on mutual support. Mutual support means providing housing and meals and care for people you know. Using that as justification to pass economic laws seems exploitative I think the owning your own car thing is pretty relevant here to your point - MIT's Living Wage calculator includes $7k in travel expenses for someone living in Manhattan. So in this particular case it's not reflective of local infrastructure. (It also seems unusually high - we own two cars and only budget $2500 a year for transportation). I would actually encourage you to get to know some immigrants in your area. I think you will find they are doing better off than you think, even on wages lower than you would expect. Remittances are HUGE in most communities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remittances_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remittances_from_the_United_St... I'm not saying that we shouldn't help people in need - I certainly have accepted my share of handouts. But I find the attempt to make a "living wage" that's a proxy for financial hardship in general is such a backwards approach to the problem.
- lucideer 4y ago
  > ??? My comment is not particularly downvoted. Are you trying to draw downvotes to it? Not at all, apologies: it was all greyed out when I first replied. I guess things flipped - have removed that commentary so.

legitster 4y ago

??? My comment is not particularly downvoted. Are you trying to draw downvotes to it? This is not something I am unfamiliar with. I did not grow up in America. I think you are putting too much of your reality on a set of numbers. Sure, housing is a lot cheaper in Romania! But it did not necessarily come with running water, or heat. Healthcare was free! If it existed for you. So you can do a heck of a lot more living in the US even without making a ton of money. I don't know what you are going on about on mutual support. Mutual support means providing housing and meals and care for people you know. Using that as justification to pass economic laws seems exploitative I think the owning your own car thing is pretty relevant here to your point - MIT's Living Wage calculator includes $7k in travel expenses for someone living in Manhattan. So in this particular case it's not reflective of local infrastructure. (It also seems unusually high - we own two cars and only budget $2500 a year for transportation). I would actually encourage you to get to know some immigrants in your area. I think you will find they are doing better off than you think, even on wages lower than you would expect. Remittances are HUGE in most communities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remittances_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remittances_from_the_United_St... I'm not saying that we shouldn't help people in need - I certainly have accepted my share of handouts. But I find the attempt to make a "living wage" that's a proxy for financial hardship in general is such a backwards approach to the problem.

lucideer 4y ago
> ??? My comment is not particularly downvoted. Are you trying to draw downvotes to it? Not at all, apologies: it was all greyed out when I first replied. I guess things flipped - have removed that commentary so.