3 ms·

Twelve European countries broke temperature records in 2022

32 points by ljf 4y ago

908B64B197 4y ago
One has to wonder if the invasion of Ukraine wasn't rushed because warmer climate in Europe would negate most leverage provided by Russian gas.
- PraetorianGourd 4y ago
  There is a reason it has been rebranded as "global climate change" because the _real_ expected impact is for more extreme weather, both cold and hot. If anything Russia will have more leverage in the future, as methane can/is used for both cooling (electricity generation) and heating.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Assuming there is still life to care about those issues, depending how many red buttons get pressed.
    - tester756 4y ago
      as far as I've heard if one of them is pressed e.g against US or Russia, then the things will happen automatically Here's interesting video from Ukraine's intercontinental nuclear missile base museum with english subtitles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8ZrnffyXpU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8ZrnffyXpU where presenter says that "people will be dead, but missiles will still fly" iirc
      - mrguyorama 4y ago
        Most of the world doesn't need any sort of complicated automation, we have submarines with the express intent of making good on the mutual part of mutually assured destruction
einpoklum 4y ago
Also, many countries broke annual records of hollow promises made to address greenhouse gas emissions. (And the US doesn't even make hollow promises) BTW, for reference, see this chart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2020_Worldwide_CO2_Emissions_(by_region,_per_capita),_variwide_diagram.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2020_Worldwide_CO2_Emissi... which indicates both total and per-capita emissions.
thinking4real 4y ago
Simultaneously, you can see that in several of these cherry picked examples the coldest temps recorded during those times were quite close to the record cold as well. If you look at the global maps, you can see that while some regions are extra warm, (eastern Europe and Russia being main ones), there are complimentary countries being extra cold. We can also look to the US midwest which around Christmas faces winchill temps around -60F and had several feet of snowfall in just a couple weeks. It really makes a person wonder why this topic can only ever go one direction. Why we can’t even examine the data that don’t wholesale support the narrative.
- tmtvl 4y ago
  Agreed, just looking at specific outliers is a fairly pointless exercise. The only way to discuss the topic reasonably is to look at global trends over a larger timescale. Doing so we can see that starting from the Industrial Revolution global mean temperatures have been rising sharply: https://web.archive.org/web/20200202220240/https://www.climate-lab-book.ac.uk/2020/2019-years/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200202220240/https://www.clima...
  - thinking4real 4y ago
    Go back to the biblical times. Egypt used to be a lush garden. You’re making the mistake of looking at too small a data sample and assuming what came before. Not rational at all, just parroting a narrative, sadly.
  - Maursault 4y ago
    > The only way to discuss the topic reasonably is to look at global trends over a larger timescale. I don't think it would be remotely reasonable to ignore events we're seeing now on decade-length time scales.[0] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/08/world-on-brink-five-climate-tipping-points-study-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/08/world-on...
    - tmtvl 4y ago
      Yes, decade-length timescales are more reasonable than looking at outlier temperatures which occur in a year-by-year basis. One of the two worthwhile citations that Guardian article provides shows changing trends over the course of centuries: https://www.genevaenvironmentnetwork.org/events/climate-tipping-points-irreversibilty-and-their-consequences-for-society-environment-and-economies-switzerlands-proposal-for-an-ipcc-special-report/ https://www.genevaenvironmentnetwork.org/events/climate-tipp... On an unrelated note, that Guardian article is so bad, there are like two references to proper peer-reviewed scientific articles and all the other references are to older Guardian articles... and none of the references are properly cited. It's almost as bad as a Crowder article, really shoddy journalism.

32 points by ljf 4y ago

One has to wonder if the invasion of Ukraine wasn't rushed because warmer climate in Europe would negate most leverage provided by Russian gas.

PraetorianGourd 4y ago
There is a reason it has been rebranded as "global climate change" because the _real_ expected impact is for more extreme weather, both cold and hot. If anything Russia will have more leverage in the future, as methane can/is used for both cooling (electricity generation) and heating.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Assuming there is still life to care about those issues, depending how many red buttons get pressed.
  - tester756 4y ago
    as far as I've heard if one of them is pressed e.g against US or Russia, then the things will happen automatically Here's interesting video from Ukraine's intercontinental nuclear missile base museum with english subtitles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8ZrnffyXpU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8ZrnffyXpU where presenter says that "people will be dead, but missiles will still fly" iirc
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      Most of the world doesn't need any sort of complicated automation, we have submarines with the express intent of making good on the mutual part of mutually assured destruction

einpoklum 4y ago

Also, many countries broke annual records of hollow promises made to address greenhouse gas emissions. (And the US doesn't even make hollow promises) BTW, for reference, see this chart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2020_Worldwide_CO2_Emissions_(by_region,_per_capita),_variwide_diagram.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2020_Worldwide_CO2_Emissi... which indicates both total and per-capita emissions.

thinking4real 4y ago

Simultaneously, you can see that in several of these cherry picked examples the coldest temps recorded during those times were quite close to the record cold as well. If you look at the global maps, you can see that while some regions are extra warm, (eastern Europe and Russia being main ones), there are complimentary countries being extra cold. We can also look to the US midwest which around Christmas faces winchill temps around -60F and had several feet of snowfall in just a couple weeks. It really makes a person wonder why this topic can only ever go one direction. Why we can’t even examine the data that don’t wholesale support the narrative.

tmtvl 4y ago
Agreed, just looking at specific outliers is a fairly pointless exercise. The only way to discuss the topic reasonably is to look at global trends over a larger timescale. Doing so we can see that starting from the Industrial Revolution global mean temperatures have been rising sharply: https://web.archive.org/web/20200202220240/https://www.climate-lab-book.ac.uk/2020/2019-years/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200202220240/https://www.clima...
- thinking4real 4y ago
  Go back to the biblical times. Egypt used to be a lush garden. You’re making the mistake of looking at too small a data sample and assuming what came before. Not rational at all, just parroting a narrative, sadly.
- Maursault 4y ago
  > The only way to discuss the topic reasonably is to look at global trends over a larger timescale. I don't think it would be remotely reasonable to ignore events we're seeing now on decade-length time scales.[0] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/08/world-on-brink-five-climate-tipping-points-study-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/08/world-on...
  - tmtvl 4y ago
    Yes, decade-length timescales are more reasonable than looking at outlier temperatures which occur in a year-by-year basis. One of the two worthwhile citations that Guardian article provides shows changing trends over the course of centuries: https://www.genevaenvironmentnetwork.org/events/climate-tipping-points-irreversibilty-and-their-consequences-for-society-environment-and-economies-switzerlands-proposal-for-an-ipcc-special-report/ https://www.genevaenvironmentnetwork.org/events/climate-tipp... On an unrelated note, that Guardian article is so bad, there are like two references to proper peer-reviewed scientific articles and all the other references are to older Guardian articles... and none of the references are properly cited. It's almost as bad as a Crowder article, really shoddy journalism.