5 ms·

Just because other people cheat, doesn't mean that you should. Taxes are the price of civilization.

ben_w 4y ago
While true, it can still cause resentment if $subpopulation appears to be able to get away with "cheating" — scare quotes because it's not well-defined, and the resentment still happens even when the "cheating" is necessary to maintain existence rather than comfort, e.g. "Why do disabled single mothers get paid to look after their kids?" and "Why do we pay to house these people who fled a war and don't know if their families are still alive?" etc. I don't have any solution here. Lots of resentful people claim to follow a specific dude that told rich people to pay their taxes, to give all their money to the poor, etc., and if a lifetime of religious practices don't persuade them what on earth can a random internet stranger like me do?
- p0pcult 4y ago
  I agree on all points!
notch656c 4y ago
Income taxes are not necessary to civilization. See Bahamas, Monaco, Bermuda, etc. Maybe not perfect but the people there are 'civilized.'
- p0pcult 4y ago
  Did I say income taxes?
malandrew 4y ago
Some taxes are the price of civilization. I don't know how anyone can look at our current taxation scheme and how it is spent and make the argument that what we're subject to in the US is civilized. Just look at how much of taxes go to government largesse in Washington DC and bombing people that don't look like us abroad. It's 2023. We have the technology to run more and more parts of the government in a way that we pay directly for the things we use so that each need currently met by government is forced to be more efficient if people saw how much they are paying for that. Locally, I pay a separate fee for trash pickup. That's awesome. If all government services moved to a fee based approach, you could literally pick and choose what parts of being civilized you want and what parts you don't want.
- vel0city 4y ago
  > If all government services moved to a fee based approach This is essentially just privatizing everything. Just have all the kids pay for their own schooling. Eliminate Medicaid, kids can afford their own healthcare. All social safety nets would be eliminated, as if they require the people receiving the benefits to fund it then those programs would just never actually work. > Locally, I pay a separate fee for trash pickup. That's awesome. Its not awesome when your neighbor decides to just no longer pay for trash service and starts piling up trash heaps right along your property line leading to extremely unsanitary conditions right next to your home. Or when your neighbors don't bother paying their fire department fees and that trash heap right next to your house starts burning but the department won't bother doing anything until its your house on fire.
  - evandale 4y ago
    I see this working by being forced to pay some $X (your taxes) but you can distribute that however you see fit. Another option could be packages such as "childless" where fewer of your taxes (but still some base amount) go to schools or "carless" where the bulk of your taxes go to local roads and mass transit rather than highways. I'd love to see this attempted on the municipal level. Especially in a city like my own, Toronto, where council loves to give yet more money to the police even though people are screaming for bike lanes or a home they can afford.
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      > Another option could be packages such as "childless" where fewer of your taxes (but still some base amount) go to schools Good plan if you want to drive birth rates down even faster. (which, some people actually do want)
- p0pcult 4y ago
  >If all government services moved to a fee based approach, you could literally pick and choose what parts of being civilized you want and what parts you don't want. And screw the poors while we are at it! Added bonus!

While true, it can still cause resentment if $subpopulation appears to be able to get away with "cheating" — scare quotes because it's not well-defined, and the resentment still happens even when the "cheating" is necessary to maintain existence rather than comfort, e.g. "Why do disabled single mothers get paid to look after their kids?" and "Why do we pay to house these people who fled a war and don't know if their families are still alive?" etc. I don't have any solution here. Lots of resentful people claim to follow a specific dude that told rich people to pay their taxes, to give all their money to the poor, etc., and if a lifetime of religious practices don't persuade them what on earth can a random internet stranger like me do?

p0pcult 4y ago
I agree on all points!

notch656c 4y ago

Income taxes are not necessary to civilization. See Bahamas, Monaco, Bermuda, etc. Maybe not perfect but the people there are 'civilized.'

p0pcult 4y ago
Did I say income taxes?

malandrew 4y ago

Some taxes are the price of civilization. I don't know how anyone can look at our current taxation scheme and how it is spent and make the argument that what we're subject to in the US is civilized. Just look at how much of taxes go to government largesse in Washington DC and bombing people that don't look like us abroad. It's 2023. We have the technology to run more and more parts of the government in a way that we pay directly for the things we use so that each need currently met by government is forced to be more efficient if people saw how much they are paying for that. Locally, I pay a separate fee for trash pickup. That's awesome. If all government services moved to a fee based approach, you could literally pick and choose what parts of being civilized you want and what parts you don't want.

vel0city 4y ago
> If all government services moved to a fee based approach This is essentially just privatizing everything. Just have all the kids pay for their own schooling. Eliminate Medicaid, kids can afford their own healthcare. All social safety nets would be eliminated, as if they require the people receiving the benefits to fund it then those programs would just never actually work. > Locally, I pay a separate fee for trash pickup. That's awesome. Its not awesome when your neighbor decides to just no longer pay for trash service and starts piling up trash heaps right along your property line leading to extremely unsanitary conditions right next to your home. Or when your neighbors don't bother paying their fire department fees and that trash heap right next to your house starts burning but the department won't bother doing anything until its your house on fire.
- evandale 4y ago
  I see this working by being forced to pay some $X (your taxes) but you can distribute that however you see fit. Another option could be packages such as "childless" where fewer of your taxes (but still some base amount) go to schools or "carless" where the bulk of your taxes go to local roads and mass transit rather than highways. I'd love to see this attempted on the municipal level. Especially in a city like my own, Toronto, where council loves to give yet more money to the police even though people are screaming for bike lanes or a home they can afford.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    > Another option could be packages such as "childless" where fewer of your taxes (but still some base amount) go to schools Good plan if you want to drive birth rates down even faster. (which, some people actually do want)
p0pcult 4y ago
>If all government services moved to a fee based approach, you could literally pick and choose what parts of being civilized you want and what parts you don't want. And screw the poors while we are at it! Added bonus!