7 ms·

Calling 40 years ago “history” is actually “disdain for history”. History is not what you can find at an older cousin's place. History is what someone had to m

by pif 4y ago

Calling 40 years ago “history” is actually “disdain for history”. History is not what you can find at an older cousin's place. History is what someone had to make an effort to save for you, and you cannot experience it any more.

edgyquant 4y ago
When I was in 8th grade in 2007 our history book ended with a chapter on 9/11. History is the past and even history forums tend to say anything more than a generation ago is history.
blitzar 4y ago
Here is a perfectly preserved sony walkman from 1987 - maximum effort and all. https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O315300/walkman-personal-radio-cassette-sony-corporation/ https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O315300/walkman-personal-...
3-cheese-sundae 4y ago
There is a lot that occurred 40 years ago that can no longer be experienced, or even known by anyone today. Wouldn't refusing to call it history be disdain for history?
dimitrios1 4y ago
History is simply what we chose to remember and how we remember it. There's no minimum length it needs to be in the past. A "historical moment" can happen in the present.
namaria 4y ago
The whole 'history repeats itself' really rang true to me when I was reading on the birth of the roman empire, about when the republic fell (not the last decade, the full history) and I realized much of what we see happening in American politics is not new. The big outrageous personalities, the moral pleas, the manipulation of public opinion, the principled vs the pragmatic. All of that resonates across the centuries. But, alas, as they say... those who don't know history are condemned to repeat, while those who know are condemned to watch other repeating it.
- sirspacey 4y ago
  I question the implication of this common assertion - how does knowing history change the repetitive nature and outcomes of human systems?
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  Some writing on why the US and Rome are completely different: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/19mi71/how_valid_is_the_analogy_between_modern_day_usa/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/19mi71/how_v... https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1ir3jm/in_what_ways_are_the_roman_empire_and_the_united/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1ir3jm/in_wh...
  - namaria 4y ago
    The fact that they are completely different contexts, yet we can see patterns in behavior repeating themselves, is what makes this interesting.
    - satvikpendem 4y ago
      Not really. As said in those posts, just because there are superficial ostensible patterns does not mean that they are useful, or even real.
      - namaria 4y ago
        These posts are disabusing people of the notion that The American Empire shall follow because omens were foreseen. I am obviously not saying that. I took care to single out the personality traits and behaviors I was comparing. It's an aesthetic exercise and not at all similar to prognosticating modern politics bases on ancient history. What are you trying to accomplish?
- nescioquid 4y ago
  The sad story of the Gracchi brothers is often considered a turning point in the republic because it "normalized" violence as a political tool. What followed were proscriptions, the Catilinarian conspiracy, civil wars. I don't think we're there yet, but the last several years have made me a little more nervous. Are we close to groups of people resorting to political assassinations and if so, will it become normalized? I actually think more about what Donald Kagan said about tyrannies (a tyrant is just someone who seizes power extra-constitutionally): they generally don't last more than three generations. That led me to compare with democracies, and I can't think of many much older than a couple centuries (though I'm claiming no erudition here).
thewebcount 4y ago
I recently had a conversation with an archeologist. She said that she regularly gets calls from the local government because they're out digging up some ground and have found items that are around 50 years old. Apparently that's the legal cutoff, and they're required to get it checked out by an archeologist if they think it's that age or older. So yeah, history is definitely in that range.

by pif 4y ago

edgyquant 4y ago

When I was in 8th grade in 2007 our history book ended with a chapter on 9/11. History is the past and even history forums tend to say anything more than a generation ago is history.

blitzar 4y ago

Here is a perfectly preserved sony walkman from 1987 - maximum effort and all. https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O315300/walkman-personal-radio-cassette-sony-corporation/ https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O315300/walkman-personal-...

3-cheese-sundae 4y ago

There is a lot that occurred 40 years ago that can no longer be experienced, or even known by anyone today. Wouldn't refusing to call it history be disdain for history?

dimitrios1 4y ago

History is simply what we chose to remember and how we remember it. There's no minimum length it needs to be in the past. A "historical moment" can happen in the present.

namaria 4y ago

The whole 'history repeats itself' really rang true to me when I was reading on the birth of the roman empire, about when the republic fell (not the last decade, the full history) and I realized much of what we see happening in American politics is not new. The big outrageous personalities, the moral pleas, the manipulation of public opinion, the principled vs the pragmatic. All of that resonates across the centuries. But, alas, as they say... those who don't know history are condemned to repeat, while those who know are condemned to watch other repeating it.

sirspacey 4y ago
I question the implication of this common assertion - how does knowing history change the repetitive nature and outcomes of human systems?
satvikpendem 4y ago
Some writing on why the US and Rome are completely different: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/19mi71/how_valid_is_the_analogy_between_modern_day_usa/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/19mi71/how_v... https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1ir3jm/in_what_ways_are_the_roman_empire_and_the_united/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1ir3jm/in_wh...
- namaria 4y ago
  The fact that they are completely different contexts, yet we can see patterns in behavior repeating themselves, is what makes this interesting.
  - satvikpendem 4y ago
    Not really. As said in those posts, just because there are superficial ostensible patterns does not mean that they are useful, or even real.
    - namaria 4y ago
      These posts are disabusing people of the notion that The American Empire shall follow because omens were foreseen. I am obviously not saying that. I took care to single out the personality traits and behaviors I was comparing. It's an aesthetic exercise and not at all similar to prognosticating modern politics bases on ancient history. What are you trying to accomplish?
nescioquid 4y ago
The sad story of the Gracchi brothers is often considered a turning point in the republic because it "normalized" violence as a political tool. What followed were proscriptions, the Catilinarian conspiracy, civil wars. I don't think we're there yet, but the last several years have made me a little more nervous. Are we close to groups of people resorting to political assassinations and if so, will it become normalized? I actually think more about what Donald Kagan said about tyrannies (a tyrant is just someone who seizes power extra-constitutionally): they generally don't last more than three generations. That led me to compare with democracies, and I can't think of many much older than a couple centuries (though I'm claiming no erudition here).

thewebcount 4y ago

I recently had a conversation with an archeologist. She said that she regularly gets calls from the local government because they're out digging up some ground and have found items that are around 50 years old. Apparently that's the legal cutoff, and they're required to get it checked out by an archeologist if they think it's that age or older. So yeah, history is definitely in that range.