4 ms·

What's the age range for the table top version? I see a million versions for the table top version on amazon, any suggestions on one to buy? My son loves war g

by tra3 4y ago

What's the age range for the table top version? I see a million versions for the table top version on amazon, any suggestions on one to buy? My son loves war games, would love to try to pull him away from screens and play something like this with him.

whartung 4y ago
Well, I was playing wargames around 14 years old. Squad Leader (the original Squad Leader, vs modern Advanced Squad Leader (ASL)), Star Fleet Battles, Russian Campaign, Luftwaffe. Mind, that's when I was introduced to them, so I probably could have played them earlier. I do recall my brother having the game Kingmaker from Avalon Hill, but we never played it. I should also note that we played these games, but I can't say we played them well. The original Squad Leader was notable for having a rich system, but a progressive path to learning through several scenarios that added on more and more of the rules as you proceeded through the scenarios. ASL is much more complicated than that. But I will also say that the benefit of tactical systems, vs larger strategic games, is that you CAN just learn a little bit of the game. Specifically, you only need to understand the basic mechanics (and for many, the fundamental mechanics are usually pretty basic), and then only the systems you'll be using in a particular scenario. For example, if you're just using squads of men, you don't need to understand all of the armor rules. Another example is Star Fleet Battles (not known by anyone as an "easy" game). SFB has over a dozen different fleets and powers in the game (Federation, Klingon, Romulan, etc.) with different ships and weapon systems. But if you're just playing with Feds and Klingons, half the rule book vanishes as you don't need to know about the vast array of systems and interactions. ASL is a complex game, to be sure. But a lot of the complexity is in how it represents the capabilities of the different powers and their orders of battle. But, to be fair, it would take a fairly experienced player to whittle down the essentials necessary for basic play. But you could learn the basics in a 1/2 hour. However, table top wargaming is VAST in the eras they represent, the battles, the scenarios and conflicts. There's some core mechanics that many games share (movement points, zones of control, odds based combat tables, etc.). Learn those once, and it can carry across a wide variety of games. Some publisher do use a core ruleset even for diverse eras that you can learn once and just focus on the special rules for the games or scenarios. There are certainly games for novice and young players with simple mechanics that could work, I'm just not the person to recommend them, as I'm particularly out of touch with modern gaming. I'm sure someone on Boardgame Geek could offer modern suggestions. Games like Ogre do come to mind, the original "Microgame". There's also a large array of games borderline toys that use fantastic miniatures. I'm an old school grognard. I like pushing square chits around hex grids vs dropping $$$ on, mind, very nice, miniatures and such for a game. But I can step out and look at someone coming up to a pair of people, staring at blue, plain hexagon map, with a couple of 1/2" counters on it, a few pairs of dice, tables and sheets of paper, and yelling at each other, passionately, over a rules, uh, "discussion" and wonder what the big deal is. At a glance, it certainly isn't necessarily compelling.
- secabeen 4y ago
  > The original Squad Leader was notable for having a rich system, but a progressive path to learning through several scenarios that added on more and more of the rules as you proceeded through the scenarios. ASL is much more complicated than that. ASL now has a series of "Starter Kits" which provide this progressive path pretty well. There's also Chapter K from the ruleboook, but Starter Kit is a better path, and less expensive.
simonh 4y ago
I'd highly recommend Memoir '44. It's a hybrid board war game and card game, in that you have units moving on aboard, but you also draw command cards and use them to play combinations of moves. https://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/ https://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/
- pjmorris 4y ago
  Seconded. A lot of success in the game depends on the luck of the draw in where your units are placed and the cards you get, but the games are varied and quick (~45 minutes or so for the first scenarios.) It's not too unusual to play three matches in an evening.
secabeen 4y ago
Squad leader is the biggest beast of them all in this space. The base rules run over a hundred pages, without including the historical notes. If you are interested in ASL as a tactical, squad-level game, you should start with Starter Kit #1, which is only $28: https://mmpgamers.com/asl-starter-kit-c-2_8 https://mmpgamers.com/asl-starter-kit-c-2_8 If you want something lighter, Memoir '44 is much much lighter, but still good, and there is a whole series of games that use that system. In the middle would be something like Combat Commander: Europe, which is squad-level, but uses cards rather than the detailed rules that ASL does. Here's the BGG list of wargames, ranked: https://boardgamegeek.com/wargames/browse/boardgame https://boardgamegeek.com/wargames/browse/boardgame
hermitcrab 4y ago
Squad Leader is complicated and IMHO not a good first introduction to board games. I'm sure people can give you other suggestions. How old is your son? What other board games has he played? What computer games does he like?
- tra3 4y ago
  My son is 10. He loves the Company of heroes on the iPad, he's proficient in polytopia and of course Roblox. We've played Uno, Ticket To ride Junior, monopoly.
  - hermitcrab 4y ago
    Definately wouldn't recommend Squad Leader for a 10 year old! Some possible stuff to investigate: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/147020/star-realms https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/147020/star-realms https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/137330/cube-quest https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/137330/cube-quest https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1917/stratego https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1917/stratego Games, like books and films, are very subjective and a bit hit or miss. You might also find this interesting: https://successfulsoftware.net/2014/01/31/fun-and-geeky-things-to-do-with-kid https://successfulsoftware.net/2014/01/31/fun-and-geeky-thin...

by tra3 4y ago

whartung 4y ago

Well, I was playing wargames around 14 years old. Squad Leader (the original Squad Leader, vs modern Advanced Squad Leader (ASL)), Star Fleet Battles, Russian Campaign, Luftwaffe. Mind, that's when I was introduced to them, so I probably could have played them earlier. I do recall my brother having the game Kingmaker from Avalon Hill, but we never played it. I should also note that we played these games, but I can't say we played them well. The original Squad Leader was notable for having a rich system, but a progressive path to learning through several scenarios that added on more and more of the rules as you proceeded through the scenarios. ASL is much more complicated than that. But I will also say that the benefit of tactical systems, vs larger strategic games, is that you CAN just learn a little bit of the game. Specifically, you only need to understand the basic mechanics (and for many, the fundamental mechanics are usually pretty basic), and then only the systems you'll be using in a particular scenario. For example, if you're just using squads of men, you don't need to understand all of the armor rules. Another example is Star Fleet Battles (not known by anyone as an "easy" game). SFB has over a dozen different fleets and powers in the game (Federation, Klingon, Romulan, etc.) with different ships and weapon systems. But if you're just playing with Feds and Klingons, half the rule book vanishes as you don't need to know about the vast array of systems and interactions. ASL is a complex game, to be sure. But a lot of the complexity is in how it represents the capabilities of the different powers and their orders of battle. But, to be fair, it would take a fairly experienced player to whittle down the essentials necessary for basic play. But you could learn the basics in a 1/2 hour. However, table top wargaming is VAST in the eras they represent, the battles, the scenarios and conflicts. There's some core mechanics that many games share (movement points, zones of control, odds based combat tables, etc.). Learn those once, and it can carry across a wide variety of games. Some publisher do use a core ruleset even for diverse eras that you can learn once and just focus on the special rules for the games or scenarios. There are certainly games for novice and young players with simple mechanics that could work, I'm just not the person to recommend them, as I'm particularly out of touch with modern gaming. I'm sure someone on Boardgame Geek could offer modern suggestions. Games like Ogre do come to mind, the original "Microgame". There's also a large array of games borderline toys that use fantastic miniatures. I'm an old school grognard. I like pushing square chits around hex grids vs dropping $$$ on, mind, very nice, miniatures and such for a game. But I can step out and look at someone coming up to a pair of people, staring at blue, plain hexagon map, with a couple of 1/2" counters on it, a few pairs of dice, tables and sheets of paper, and yelling at each other, passionately, over a rules, uh, "discussion" and wonder what the big deal is. At a glance, it certainly isn't necessarily compelling.

secabeen 4y ago
> The original Squad Leader was notable for having a rich system, but a progressive path to learning through several scenarios that added on more and more of the rules as you proceeded through the scenarios. ASL is much more complicated than that. ASL now has a series of "Starter Kits" which provide this progressive path pretty well. There's also Chapter K from the ruleboook, but Starter Kit is a better path, and less expensive.

simonh 4y ago

I'd highly recommend Memoir '44. It's a hybrid board war game and card game, in that you have units moving on aboard, but you also draw command cards and use them to play combinations of moves. https://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/ https://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/

pjmorris 4y ago
Seconded. A lot of success in the game depends on the luck of the draw in where your units are placed and the cards you get, but the games are varied and quick (~45 minutes or so for the first scenarios.) It's not too unusual to play three matches in an evening.

secabeen 4y ago

Squad leader is the biggest beast of them all in this space. The base rules run over a hundred pages, without including the historical notes. If you are interested in ASL as a tactical, squad-level game, you should start with Starter Kit #1, which is only $28: https://mmpgamers.com/asl-starter-kit-c-2_8 https://mmpgamers.com/asl-starter-kit-c-2_8 If you want something lighter, Memoir '44 is much much lighter, but still good, and there is a whole series of games that use that system. In the middle would be something like Combat Commander: Europe, which is squad-level, but uses cards rather than the detailed rules that ASL does. Here's the BGG list of wargames, ranked: https://boardgamegeek.com/wargames/browse/boardgame https://boardgamegeek.com/wargames/browse/boardgame

hermitcrab 4y ago

Squad Leader is complicated and IMHO not a good first introduction to board games. I'm sure people can give you other suggestions. How old is your son? What other board games has he played? What computer games does he like?

tra3 4y ago
My son is 10. He loves the Company of heroes on the iPad, he's proficient in polytopia and of course Roblox. We've played Uno, Ticket To ride Junior, monopoly.
- hermitcrab 4y ago
  Definately wouldn't recommend Squad Leader for a 10 year old! Some possible stuff to investigate: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/147020/star-realms https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/147020/star-realms https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/137330/cube-quest https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/137330/cube-quest https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1917/stratego https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1917/stratego Games, like books and films, are very subjective and a bit hit or miss. You might also find this interesting: https://successfulsoftware.net/2014/01/31/fun-and-geeky-things-to-do-with-kid https://successfulsoftware.net/2014/01/31/fun-and-geeky-thin...