5 ms·

You're referring to the US system of private insurers and healthcare providers which leaves millions without any access to healthcare and can result in bankrupt

by smcl 4y ago

You're referring to the US system of private insurers and healthcare providers which leaves millions without any access to healthcare and can result in bankruptcy as a result of an illness or accident? And which costs more per-capita for worse outcomes? I'll take an adequately funded NHS, thanks.

phpisthebest 4y ago
Pretty sure that is NOT what the parent comment was talking about. The US system has all the problems of a government run health system (which it basically is at this point) but none of the benefits. There are absolutely zero market dynamics at play in the US Health system any more. >> leaves millions without any access to healthcare Absolutely, 100% completely false. >>can result in bankruptcy as a result of an illness or accident This is true, however contrary to the social stigma bankruptcy can be a good thing for many. In the US Medial Bankruptcy is often made inevitable by various government regulations that prohibit creative solutions by providers.
- jnovek 4y ago
  “Absolutely, 100% completely false.” Perhaps virtually everyone has access to health care, but certainly millions opt out at the cost of their own well-being because they can’t afford it. There have been times in my life when I have.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    People opt-out for a wide range of reasons, Take myself as an example. I largely opt out of care even though I have great insurance, and ample resources to afford it even if insurance did not cover it. My reasons for opting out have nothing to do with finances, it would get exactly the same amount of care if it was free.
    - Clent 4y ago
      30 million American have no health coverage. The common refrain is that they can go to a hospital, except an emergency room is not going to help chronic conditions. Any idea that a majority of these people are choosing to have no coverage, goes against all research on this topic.
- smcl 4y ago
  > Absolutely, 100% completely false. Ok I'll be more specific: "leaves millions without insurance and since they're usually low-income and therefore cash-poor, unable to get any adequate access to healthcare". Is that really, meaningfully any different from what I said? I have to say, the words "bankruptcy can be a good thing" is going to be bouncing around my head for a while. I don't know how less regulation could help these people, and I'm a little bit horrified thinking what kind of creative solutions these providers would come up with ...
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    >>"leaves millions without insurance and since they're usually low-income and therefore cash-poor This is still false, infact the most impacted group by medical costs is the Middle Class not the poor. People too "rich" to be on public assistance programs like Medicade but too poor to afford a medical emergency and work for employers that either do not offer insurance, or have poor coverage. >>the words "bankruptcy can be a good thing" is going to be bouncing around my head for a while. I have known more than a few people that have gone through bankruptcy and it was the best thing they could have ever done. One mistake people often make is waiting tooo long to declare bankruptcy. Bankrupcy is a legal tool designed to provide aid to people who find themselves in too much debt, there are all kinds of things built into that system to assit people. It really is not a punishment. For example most people do not realize that they can Keep their primary residence and primary transportation even after declared Bankrupcy. People have this vision that is you file for Bankrupcy *protection* the police are going to come take all your things and put you on the street. >>I'm a little bit horrified thinking what kind of creative solutions these providers would come up with ... One thing that is prevented by Regulation is Medical Coop's several have been tried but they can not navigate the regulations to make them workable. Non-profit Member owned Coops would be a great thing for medicine, just has it did for Utilities in many regions of the US. When even companies like Walmart can not make low cost medical services work directly as a result of regulation you know there is an issue.
    - smcl 4y ago
      You're dancing around the issue: you shouldn't need to have that debt, regardless of how spiritually cleansing you think the bankruptcy process might be. If you'd asked the people who went through it whether they'd rather a national insurer handle , I am sure they would have far preferred that. I'm quite shocked you know multiple people have had this kind of medical debt and can still come back with the bankruptcy-is-good-actually line. I kind of feel like you're trolling me a bit, if I'm honest.
tomxor 4y ago
Exactly, both systems are imperfect, but I'll take the half functional one over the inhumane one that also discriminates and ruins people while making excessive profit.
boppo1 4y ago
Make a law that hospitals must have menus. Pricing ought to be clear upfront, not negotiated through back channels.
- smcl 4y ago
  What problem is this meant to address?
aww_dang 4y ago
>You're referring to the US system... No, I'm not sure why this set of false alternatives keeps popping up. There's no need to read those implications into the comment. It was succinct and to the point.
- smcl 4y ago
  Your comment hinted at a solution and I gave the closest example that most of us know - the US marketplace of private insurers. If you didn't want people guessing you could maybe have been more precise.

by smcl 4y ago

phpisthebest 4y ago

Pretty sure that is NOT what the parent comment was talking about. The US system has all the problems of a government run health system (which it basically is at this point) but none of the benefits. There are absolutely zero market dynamics at play in the US Health system any more. >> leaves millions without any access to healthcare Absolutely, 100% completely false. >>can result in bankruptcy as a result of an illness or accident This is true, however contrary to the social stigma bankruptcy can be a good thing for many. In the US Medial Bankruptcy is often made inevitable by various government regulations that prohibit creative solutions by providers.

jnovek 4y ago
“Absolutely, 100% completely false.” Perhaps virtually everyone has access to health care, but certainly millions opt out at the cost of their own well-being because they can’t afford it. There have been times in my life when I have.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  People opt-out for a wide range of reasons, Take myself as an example. I largely opt out of care even though I have great insurance, and ample resources to afford it even if insurance did not cover it. My reasons for opting out have nothing to do with finances, it would get exactly the same amount of care if it was free.
  - Clent 4y ago
    30 million American have no health coverage. The common refrain is that they can go to a hospital, except an emergency room is not going to help chronic conditions. Any idea that a majority of these people are choosing to have no coverage, goes against all research on this topic.
smcl 4y ago
> Absolutely, 100% completely false. Ok I'll be more specific: "leaves millions without insurance and since they're usually low-income and therefore cash-poor, unable to get any adequate access to healthcare". Is that really, meaningfully any different from what I said? I have to say, the words "bankruptcy can be a good thing" is going to be bouncing around my head for a while. I don't know how less regulation could help these people, and I'm a little bit horrified thinking what kind of creative solutions these providers would come up with ...
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >>"leaves millions without insurance and since they're usually low-income and therefore cash-poor This is still false, infact the most impacted group by medical costs is the Middle Class not the poor. People too "rich" to be on public assistance programs like Medicade but too poor to afford a medical emergency and work for employers that either do not offer insurance, or have poor coverage. >>the words "bankruptcy can be a good thing" is going to be bouncing around my head for a while. I have known more than a few people that have gone through bankruptcy and it was the best thing they could have ever done. One mistake people often make is waiting tooo long to declare bankruptcy. Bankrupcy is a legal tool designed to provide aid to people who find themselves in too much debt, there are all kinds of things built into that system to assit people. It really is not a punishment. For example most people do not realize that they can Keep their primary residence and primary transportation even after declared Bankrupcy. People have this vision that is you file for Bankrupcy *protection* the police are going to come take all your things and put you on the street. >>I'm a little bit horrified thinking what kind of creative solutions these providers would come up with ... One thing that is prevented by Regulation is Medical Coop's several have been tried but they can not navigate the regulations to make them workable. Non-profit Member owned Coops would be a great thing for medicine, just has it did for Utilities in many regions of the US. When even companies like Walmart can not make low cost medical services work directly as a result of regulation you know there is an issue.
  - smcl 4y ago
    You're dancing around the issue: you shouldn't need to have that debt, regardless of how spiritually cleansing you think the bankruptcy process might be. If you'd asked the people who went through it whether they'd rather a national insurer handle , I am sure they would have far preferred that. I'm quite shocked you know multiple people have had this kind of medical debt and can still come back with the bankruptcy-is-good-actually line. I kind of feel like you're trolling me a bit, if I'm honest.

tomxor 4y ago

Exactly, both systems are imperfect, but I'll take the half functional one over the inhumane one that also discriminates and ruins people while making excessive profit.

boppo1 4y ago

Make a law that hospitals must have menus. Pricing ought to be clear upfront, not negotiated through back channels.

smcl 4y ago
What problem is this meant to address?

aww_dang 4y ago

>You're referring to the US system... No, I'm not sure why this set of false alternatives keeps popping up. There's no need to read those implications into the comment. It was succinct and to the point.

smcl 4y ago
Your comment hinted at a solution and I gave the closest example that most of us know - the US marketplace of private insurers. If you didn't want people guessing you could maybe have been more precise.