4 ms·

What a shitty article. No mention of the cuts to the NHS by the tories and the effect that had on its ability to serve the public but they make it seem like thi

What a shitty article. No mention of the cuts to the NHS by the tories and the effect that had on its ability to serve the public but they make it seem like this is a side effect of the covid vaccines? What the actual fuck.

gadders 4y ago
There haven't been any cuts. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/healthcareexpenditureukhealthaccountsprovisionalestimates/2021 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan...
- noelwelsh 4y ago
  Spending on the NHS is increasing a rate that is below the rate of increase in demand (the gap is about 3% year on year IIRC). Informally you might say this is a cut. It's easier to communicate to an unsophisticated audience.
  - gadders 4y ago
    I guess you can restate "cut" to suit your point. I'd even accept "cut" if it was less money in real terms (i.e. after inflation). But I don't think you can define "cut" as "not giving the NHS all the money it asks for, even though it got more than last year".
    - noelwelsh 4y ago
      Spending is increasing at a slower rate than demand: https://nhsfunding.info/underfunded/is-the-nhs-underfunded/ https://nhsfunding.info/underfunded/is-the-nhs-underfunded/ You can pedantically argue whether this is a "cut" or not, but that's not the issue. Nor is the issue how much the NHS asks for. The issue is there is less money per health-care-incident to provide care.
- DanBC 4y ago
  Please at least read the pages you quote. > this is likely to have been driven in part by activities in response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, such as testing and tracing services and the implementation of the vaccination programme. Yes, if we include the many billions spent on faulty test and trace and broken PPE -the corrupt spending that went to pals of the Tory party- we see an increase in health spending. Guess what happens to the amount of health care funding if you ignore the corrupt spend on PPE?
  - gadders 4y ago
    Even if you ignore 2020 and 2021, the trend-line is still upwards. There's no reason to think it would have dropped without COVID happening.
icare_1er 4y ago
There is no NHS in France or Germany, yet, the same phenomenon is observed. So, yes, deal with it, the common point is the COVID and the lockdown. Does it really require a high IQ to understand that closing hospital and doctors appointments for 2years will result in undiagnosed/untreated diseases ?!
w14 4y ago
One area that I think is interesting to look at, aside from overall budget, is bed capacity and nursing staff numbers. According to Statista: Bed capacity is significantly lower than at the turn of the century, but more damage was done there by Labour than the Tories [1]. The numbers of nurses has steadily increased in the last twenty years under both Labour and the Tories [2]. So if there are many more nurses per bed than there were twenty years ago, why is patient safety one of the issues they are currently in dispute with the government over? I don't know the answer to this, but I think we need to know. It is, like teachers, that nurses are spending so much time on non-clinical bureaucracy that the don't have time to nurse? [1] - https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4302/M6SgVh.png https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4302/M6SgVh.png [2] - https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/7041/40e6JF.png https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/7041/40e6JF.png
- DanBC 4y ago
  You reduce bed numbers by pushing less sick people out of hospital. This means that your two 6-bed bays now don't have 4 people who need minimal nursing, 6 people who need moderate nursing, and 2 people who need high level nursing. It means you have 8 people who need moderate level nursing and 4 people who need high level nursing.

gadders 4y ago

There haven't been any cuts. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/healthcareexpenditureukhealthaccountsprovisionalestimates/2021 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan...

noelwelsh 4y ago
Spending on the NHS is increasing a rate that is below the rate of increase in demand (the gap is about 3% year on year IIRC). Informally you might say this is a cut. It's easier to communicate to an unsophisticated audience.
- gadders 4y ago
  I guess you can restate "cut" to suit your point. I'd even accept "cut" if it was less money in real terms (i.e. after inflation). But I don't think you can define "cut" as "not giving the NHS all the money it asks for, even though it got more than last year".
  - noelwelsh 4y ago
    Spending is increasing at a slower rate than demand: https://nhsfunding.info/underfunded/is-the-nhs-underfunded/ https://nhsfunding.info/underfunded/is-the-nhs-underfunded/ You can pedantically argue whether this is a "cut" or not, but that's not the issue. Nor is the issue how much the NHS asks for. The issue is there is less money per health-care-incident to provide care.
DanBC 4y ago
Please at least read the pages you quote. > this is likely to have been driven in part by activities in response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, such as testing and tracing services and the implementation of the vaccination programme. Yes, if we include the many billions spent on faulty test and trace and broken PPE -the corrupt spending that went to pals of the Tory party- we see an increase in health spending. Guess what happens to the amount of health care funding if you ignore the corrupt spend on PPE?
- gadders 4y ago
  Even if you ignore 2020 and 2021, the trend-line is still upwards. There's no reason to think it would have dropped without COVID happening.

icare_1er 4y ago

There is no NHS in France or Germany, yet, the same phenomenon is observed. So, yes, deal with it, the common point is the COVID and the lockdown. Does it really require a high IQ to understand that closing hospital and doctors appointments for 2years will result in undiagnosed/untreated diseases ?!

w14 4y ago

One area that I think is interesting to look at, aside from overall budget, is bed capacity and nursing staff numbers. According to Statista: Bed capacity is significantly lower than at the turn of the century, but more damage was done there by Labour than the Tories [1]. The numbers of nurses has steadily increased in the last twenty years under both Labour and the Tories [2]. So if there are many more nurses per bed than there were twenty years ago, why is patient safety one of the issues they are currently in dispute with the government over? I don't know the answer to this, but I think we need to know. It is, like teachers, that nurses are spending so much time on non-clinical bureaucracy that the don't have time to nurse? [1] - https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4302/M6SgVh.png https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/4302/M6SgVh.png [2] - https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/7041/40e6JF.png https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/7041/40e6JF.png

DanBC 4y ago
You reduce bed numbers by pushing less sick people out of hospital. This means that your two 6-bed bays now don't have 4 people who need minimal nursing, 6 people who need moderate nursing, and 2 people who need high level nursing. It means you have 8 people who need moderate level nursing and 4 people who need high level nursing.