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While I agree that technology is the solution I disagree AI has anything to do with this. This "AI Lawyer" is about a traffic ticket. If we want to make things

While I agree that technology is the solution I disagree AI has anything to do with this. This "AI Lawyer" is about a traffic ticket. If we want to make things more fair while also enforcing the laws on the book it seems like the more straightforward tech solution is to improve traffic cameras/monitors such that tickets are given out more appropriately. Or, if it still goes to court, why not just have a system where someone can represent themselves with a form or checklist which points out the reasons they were given a ticket by mistake? Perhaps this is a good business model in the current system but its definitely not the best for society as a whole. Why do we need lawyer of any type to handle something as banal as speeding tickets?

meowkit 4y ago
Normative statements. You should be asking what are the incentives. > like the more straightforward tech solution is to improve traffic cameras/monitors such that tickets are given out more appropriately This is not straightforward from a bureaucratic sense. There is no strong incentive (that I can identify - humanitarian ideals do not count) to improve the functionality here to make traffic tickets and their resolutions more sensible. However, an AI that can resolve traffic tickets and citations might incentive a city to start gathering data more effectively - to win cases and get revenue - and that is a great incentive to improve the general tech. > Why do we need lawyer of any type to handle something as banal as speeding tickets? I also want to mention that this is a great point. The fact that my job provides legal insurance, the end result being I can get out of my traffic tickets by hiring a lawyer for free to show up and ask for a dismissal, is pretty dumb.
- Kinrany 4y ago
  The threat of getting fired for incompetence is a perfectly good incentive.
  - netheril96 4y ago
    The people with the power to fire them don't care. So your threat is empty.
- omginternets 4y ago
  > Normative statements. You should be asking what are the incentives. This is itself a normative statement. I’m of the opinion that incentives aren’t the only thing worth considering — there’s something to be said for enshrining ethics into law (if only because it can adjust incentives). Another thing worth considering is our mediocre track record of identifying incentives ahead of time.
- fasthands9 4y ago
  FWIW I think adding more cameras and monitoring equipment would have a strong incentive since it could still increase the total number of tickets given out. Either way the government is not purely incentivized to increase funds. Standard fines for traffic violations are changed up or down all the time. Sometimes cities decide their current traffic enforcement is too burdensome and they cut back on tickets. There could be political actors which have incentives to improve it. Whether or not it will ever happen is not clear but I dont think its impossible by any means.
alexdoesstuff 4y ago
This is just great press hacking by the company, jumping on the coverage ChatGPT has recently received. In essence, the company is just offering a checklist of reasons why the ticket was given by mistake but making it sound advanced and technologically impressive to a wide audience. Which seems like a perfectly fine societal use to me.
jtbayly 4y ago
>Why do we need lawyer of any type to handle something as banal as speeding tickets? You don't. Just show up in court and talk to the judge. That's how it's currently handled. Lawyers aren't involved in the traffic courts I've seen.
- notch656c 4y ago
  I always hire a lawyer for traffic court. Show up with a lawyer and wear a suit. Don't want them to think I'm one of the poors to stomp down. If you go to low-level court in middle America you'll understand what I mean -- 99% of the people there are drugged out and wearing rags generally look like their shit is not together at all and these are the people the lazy/burnt-out prosecutor is geared towards crushing effortlessly. They basically always offer some bullshit non-moving violation to make me go away. Saves me thousands on insurance premiums and has also saved me from a criminal record for my more serious tickets (like allegedly driving gasp 36 mph by a school, which apparently comes with jail time in Ohio). Bring on the hate. Y'all know I speak truth.
  - bigbillheck 4y ago
    You need to make better choices in life.
  - superorganism 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - notch656c 4y ago
      Weird that people assume someone who was never convicted must be a guilty "monster." I believe in innocent until proven guilty.
      - aoeusnth1 4y ago
        The word “apparently” served to make the monster accusation conditional on you actually speeding in a school zone and feeling no remorse about it.

meowkit 4y ago

Normative statements. You should be asking what are the incentives. > like the more straightforward tech solution is to improve traffic cameras/monitors such that tickets are given out more appropriately This is not straightforward from a bureaucratic sense. There is no strong incentive (that I can identify - humanitarian ideals do not count) to improve the functionality here to make traffic tickets and their resolutions more sensible. However, an AI that can resolve traffic tickets and citations might incentive a city to start gathering data more effectively - to win cases and get revenue - and that is a great incentive to improve the general tech. > Why do we need lawyer of any type to handle something as banal as speeding tickets? I also want to mention that this is a great point. The fact that my job provides legal insurance, the end result being I can get out of my traffic tickets by hiring a lawyer for free to show up and ask for a dismissal, is pretty dumb.

Kinrany 4y ago
The threat of getting fired for incompetence is a perfectly good incentive.
- netheril96 4y ago
  The people with the power to fire them don't care. So your threat is empty.
omginternets 4y ago
> Normative statements. You should be asking what are the incentives. This is itself a normative statement. I’m of the opinion that incentives aren’t the only thing worth considering — there’s something to be said for enshrining ethics into law (if only because it can adjust incentives). Another thing worth considering is our mediocre track record of identifying incentives ahead of time.
fasthands9 4y ago
FWIW I think adding more cameras and monitoring equipment would have a strong incentive since it could still increase the total number of tickets given out. Either way the government is not purely incentivized to increase funds. Standard fines for traffic violations are changed up or down all the time. Sometimes cities decide their current traffic enforcement is too burdensome and they cut back on tickets. There could be political actors which have incentives to improve it. Whether or not it will ever happen is not clear but I dont think its impossible by any means.

alexdoesstuff 4y ago

This is just great press hacking by the company, jumping on the coverage ChatGPT has recently received. In essence, the company is just offering a checklist of reasons why the ticket was given by mistake but making it sound advanced and technologically impressive to a wide audience. Which seems like a perfectly fine societal use to me.

jtbayly 4y ago

>Why do we need lawyer of any type to handle something as banal as speeding tickets? You don't. Just show up in court and talk to the judge. That's how it's currently handled. Lawyers aren't involved in the traffic courts I've seen.

notch656c 4y ago
I always hire a lawyer for traffic court. Show up with a lawyer and wear a suit. Don't want them to think I'm one of the poors to stomp down. If you go to low-level court in middle America you'll understand what I mean -- 99% of the people there are drugged out and wearing rags generally look like their shit is not together at all and these are the people the lazy/burnt-out prosecutor is geared towards crushing effortlessly. They basically always offer some bullshit non-moving violation to make me go away. Saves me thousands on insurance premiums and has also saved me from a criminal record for my more serious tickets (like allegedly driving gasp 36 mph by a school, which apparently comes with jail time in Ohio). Bring on the hate. Y'all know I speak truth.
- bigbillheck 4y ago
  You need to make better choices in life.
- superorganism 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - notch656c 4y ago
    Weird that people assume someone who was never convicted must be a guilty "monster." I believe in innocent until proven guilty.
    - aoeusnth1 4y ago
      The word “apparently” served to make the monster accusation conditional on you actually speeding in a school zone and feeling no remorse about it.